Whats up with this pc demoscene wannabe amiga scene?
category: general [glöplog]
truck just told me he meant it as 'make demos for your pleasure not other's pleasures' it seems :)
Shifter/Maali: refer to the last statement in which I explain that I can't say that in English properly. The part where you disagree with me is the part where we are thinking the same thing.
Zplex: I'm sorry we bore you. Go die before I kill you.
Zplex: I'm sorry we bore you. Go die before I kill you.
Am I the only one who didn't get at all lator's point? I'm not even sure what he's saying.
Lator dont have any point, so no wonder you didn`t see it.
Stefan rarely makes more than a mountain out of a molehill.
Zplex just pissed me off, that's all. This is traditional pouet wanking (:
Zplex just pissed me off, that's all. This is traditional pouet wanking (:
OBSERVE THE AWARDWINNING EFFECT: VOXEL-GOATSE(TM)
O_o
blahblahblah... atleast people make demos. and i get drunk.
good demos are the ones with decent scene spirit put into it, it has nothing to do with the latest hardware. learn from your elders.
Word!
Xeron:
Let me tell ya, that I really admire many of those so called
fun demos you did with Doom, because everytime I watch
them I get reminded to take all this not to serious ;)
...better is to unveil the secret of melb...erm macarena :D
about the judging messaround:
For my particular bridge I make the difference between
all that categories.
On the demo side I don't care about the amount of
bytes it has taken. It has to run proper and what counts at the very end is the combination of effects,timing,music and the overall look it had given plus the scenish feeling it
invoked while I watched it.
All the size limited prods are "judged" with less expectations for design & music but with a closer view on
the technical aspect. If it provides exact timing,good gfx and catchy music though....then it is indeed a burner.
Xeron:
Let me tell ya, that I really admire many of those so called
fun demos you did with Doom, because everytime I watch
them I get reminded to take all this not to serious ;)
...better is to unveil the secret of melb...erm macarena :D
about the judging messaround:
For my particular bridge I make the difference between
all that categories.
On the demo side I don't care about the amount of
bytes it has taken. It has to run proper and what counts at the very end is the combination of effects,timing,music and the overall look it had given plus the scenish feeling it
invoked while I watched it.
All the size limited prods are "judged" with less expectations for design & music but with a closer view on
the technical aspect. If it provides exact timing,good gfx and catchy music though....then it is indeed a burner.
To paraphrase Oliver Messiaen: "The demos I haven't seen yet are the sweetest of all."
Interresting thread:
We see there that there is Differences in point of view about the scene and demos. Difference is what make life interresting: try to imagine a world where only one guy rule everybody: like Mr Bush on the USA for example. Really scary isn't it?
So demoscene is about artists with a technical side emphasizied for some and fun for others and ... Everybody come there as it's a social integration process: everybody found what he loves inside and that's the point: if you find something interesting in the scene for you then it's good for you, if not then the scene is no (more) for you.
I've personnaly changed these last years, I mean psychologicaly speaking: before technics was for me a aim, everything had to be perfect, following rules, being optimised, ... And then I met tons of so called "ordinary" people and was in charge of solving their IT problems. I understood this way that for most people what's important isn't the way (aka the technics) but to get a solution to their issue by whatever means. Technics is usually seen as ways and what's important is generally to find one technic to solve one problem, not to have the best technology implied or whatever.
But the scene was about something different: before machines were not as powerful as the new ones and the scene was about pushing the limit but nowadays we can hardly seen the limits as nobody have the same computer. Moreover the capabilities are infinite as the number of parameters (the functions) on current hardware are huge and so combinations are infinite. So nowadays as the scene became more and more known, less and less elitist and more and more open minded, things evolve: some are more "traditionalist" and want the old scene to survive, some others want art, some want fun.
There is no point to try to convince others you have the good point about the scene: because nobody have the good point.
As Chaos said me: "it's not to you nor to me to say what the scene have to be". It's really easier to change the scene: make it!
You want fun: make fun demos! People aren't happy with? Don't care: you make demos for your fun and those who will follow you.
You want technics? Make technical demos, you'll get a public and if it's tiny that doesn't matter: the main point isn't about glory or mass success, it's about your own achievment, your fun (some find fun in technics, some find fun in sex, some in other things, differences, ...)
You want XXX? Make XXX, ...
Scene isn't at the roots based under money, if money comes into play then things change: fun turns into interest and you make links with some big companies and you're catched.
For now some demos use the latest hardware and requires it, it's a way to launch the market.
It has always been the case but now the market is different: it's a mass market and money sums in play are hudge.
People using computers are numerous and if a demo is released and attract lots of people then it can increase sales.
That's why I'm not loving the new scene: it was originally more "rebel" and farer from economy and traditionnal market circuit than the new one.
That's also why I loved very much these classical scene who are the C64 / A500 / Atari XL ones.
So everybody have it's point, but it's no worth battling for or spending hours of discussion in this:
whatever you'll say doeasn't matter, because what matters is to make the scene, not to lost it's time on pouet.
Psychotherapy are there to solve your problems, and general socialisation aka talk, are there to solve your existencial problems.
On the scene we need less productions but of better quality and of several varieties: because everybody must be represented.
And if you consider that quality is good enough then you are right because it's your taste, and if you consider quality is low then you are right because it's your taste too! Thare is no accountancy for taste.
That's a happy medium.
EP
We see there that there is Differences in point of view about the scene and demos. Difference is what make life interresting: try to imagine a world where only one guy rule everybody: like Mr Bush on the USA for example. Really scary isn't it?
So demoscene is about artists with a technical side emphasizied for some and fun for others and ... Everybody come there as it's a social integration process: everybody found what he loves inside and that's the point: if you find something interesting in the scene for you then it's good for you, if not then the scene is no (more) for you.
I've personnaly changed these last years, I mean psychologicaly speaking: before technics was for me a aim, everything had to be perfect, following rules, being optimised, ... And then I met tons of so called "ordinary" people and was in charge of solving their IT problems. I understood this way that for most people what's important isn't the way (aka the technics) but to get a solution to their issue by whatever means. Technics is usually seen as ways and what's important is generally to find one technic to solve one problem, not to have the best technology implied or whatever.
But the scene was about something different: before machines were not as powerful as the new ones and the scene was about pushing the limit but nowadays we can hardly seen the limits as nobody have the same computer. Moreover the capabilities are infinite as the number of parameters (the functions) on current hardware are huge and so combinations are infinite. So nowadays as the scene became more and more known, less and less elitist and more and more open minded, things evolve: some are more "traditionalist" and want the old scene to survive, some others want art, some want fun.
There is no point to try to convince others you have the good point about the scene: because nobody have the good point.
As Chaos said me: "it's not to you nor to me to say what the scene have to be". It's really easier to change the scene: make it!
You want fun: make fun demos! People aren't happy with? Don't care: you make demos for your fun and those who will follow you.
You want technics? Make technical demos, you'll get a public and if it's tiny that doesn't matter: the main point isn't about glory or mass success, it's about your own achievment, your fun (some find fun in technics, some find fun in sex, some in other things, differences, ...)
You want XXX? Make XXX, ...
Scene isn't at the roots based under money, if money comes into play then things change: fun turns into interest and you make links with some big companies and you're catched.
For now some demos use the latest hardware and requires it, it's a way to launch the market.
It has always been the case but now the market is different: it's a mass market and money sums in play are hudge.
People using computers are numerous and if a demo is released and attract lots of people then it can increase sales.
That's why I'm not loving the new scene: it was originally more "rebel" and farer from economy and traditionnal market circuit than the new one.
That's also why I loved very much these classical scene who are the C64 / A500 / Atari XL ones.
So everybody have it's point, but it's no worth battling for or spending hours of discussion in this:
whatever you'll say doeasn't matter, because what matters is to make the scene, not to lost it's time on pouet.
Psychotherapy are there to solve your problems, and general socialisation aka talk, are there to solve your existencial problems.
On the scene we need less productions but of better quality and of several varieties: because everybody must be represented.
And if you consider that quality is good enough then you are right because it's your taste, and if you consider quality is low then you are right because it's your taste too! Thare is no accountancy for taste.
That's a happy medium.
EP
OMG, I can't believe I managed to read your reply, EP. It's f*cking long, man! But I get your point and pretty much agree.
A nice thing with the "new" scene though, is that fantasy and imagination is just as much a limit as is technical stuff and talent. I mean, coming up with all the visual ideas for a great demo is hard these days. Flat shaded cubes were easy in that sense ...
A nice thing with the "new" scene though, is that fantasy and imagination is just as much a limit as is technical stuff and talent. I mean, coming up with all the visual ideas for a great demo is hard these days. Flat shaded cubes were easy in that sense ...
I applaud anything maali did. Because, I feel sorry for him.
Le Thorst: True, true.
thorsten. beware i have your phonenumber now! :P
i second thorsten
maali is special! :)
maali is special! :)
Imagination isn't harder this day than it was years ago, we simply have less time to think due to work and family constraints. However there is a lot of things and in fact an infinity to explore in the graphical area, both algorithmic generated graphisms aka those done by coders and on 2D / 3D graphisms done by graphists, music is also something which contain an infinity of combination and sampling is a way to get back some creativity. I mean there is so much sounds in reality and so much we can change or create that there is no problem to coin something else.
Technics generally come into play to realize things, not to conceive / to imagine them, this is a two parts scheme that making a demo or a piece of art is: imagine it then realize it.
Technics generally come into play to realize things, not to conceive / to imagine them, this is a two parts scheme that making a demo or a piece of art is: imagine it then realize it.
wank wank wank wank wank, wank wank wank wank. wank wank wank, wank wank wank wank! wank.
Wank?
Wank wank wank, wank wank wank WANK wank. WANK!
Wank> Wank, wank wank wank.
Wank> Wank wank wank wank wankwank wank. wank... wank.
Wank> Wank wank wank, wank wank wank. wank wank wank.
Wank> Wank? Wank!
Wank> wank wank wank wank wank.
Wank! Wank! Wank!
Wank?
Wank wank wank, wank wank wank WANK wank. WANK!
Wank> Wank, wank wank wank.
Wank> Wank wank wank wank wankwank wank. wank... wank.
Wank> Wank wank wank, wank wank wank. wank wank wank.
Wank> Wank? Wank!
Wank> wank wank wank wank wank.
Wank! Wank! Wank!
In this day and age, anything you've thought once, people have thought N times already. That's not to say one should not think about things, more than one should think harder about /how/ to express them.
EP says:
"So everybody have it's point, but it's no worth battling for or spending hours of discussion in this:"
Well some long post for that opinion...:-)
And again its true, all demo freaks are morons....
"So everybody have it's point, but it's no worth battling for or spending hours of discussion in this:"
Well some long post for that opinion...:-)
And again its true, all demo freaks are morons....
Zweckform: Fuck you.
The bitching and whining of people that weren't at Asm doesn't matter anyway.
Ep:
I disagree that creativity/imagination isn't harder these days. I don't know what you mean with "years ago" but I refer to early 90s.
Back then coding a basic 3D motor was a huge effort, and showing that you could calculate more dots/faces/bobs in full framerate than anyone else was more or less a party winner. Effects were shown in a row, often without good transitions.
Today I feel that design, imagination and creativity are much more challenging than in the early 90s. "OK, we've got a 3D motor, glow, depth of field, texture generators, and a bunch of nice transitions---what should we do with it?"
I disagree that creativity/imagination isn't harder these days. I don't know what you mean with "years ago" but I refer to early 90s.
Back then coding a basic 3D motor was a huge effort, and showing that you could calculate more dots/faces/bobs in full framerate than anyone else was more or less a party winner. Effects were shown in a row, often without good transitions.
Today I feel that design, imagination and creativity are much more challenging than in the early 90s. "OK, we've got a 3D motor, glow, depth of field, texture generators, and a bunch of nice transitions---what should we do with it?"