pouët.net

@sagacity

Streaming to YT and having your VoD or recording archive somewhere else is just fine.

Most of the problems really are looong-term.

The scene is far older than the (commercial) Internet. scene.org is far older than YT.

We have seen lots of such commercial services come an go. And every time one of those services died or turned evil, we got "dead links" and black holes left.

Imagine three years ago someone would have decided "Twitter is the communication platform to go with" instead of "Let's use Discord".

Commercial services want to earn money. Most treat your data as their asset and capital. They are not designed for long term preservation.

Now, let's assume this: All sceners who in the past had been able to run a video service (or storage or forum or chat or whatever service) have accepted "OK, we are not needed anymore, we can happily retire now". You then have lots this competence inside the scene should it really be needed again in the future.

This might also be a generational thing. No clue how old you are. There is an older generation who grew up with "all my data is mine, and the Internet is a sharing is caring thing", and those who grew where it was perfectly normal that once you are born your data no longer belongs to you.

I'm just from what older generation who still is a control freak when it comes to my data. Fine to share much of it with the commercial services, but under my own rules.

Back to YT: My biggest issue with YT scene use *today* by far actually is not streaming, but that it's now the sole archive for recordings and captures. We will lose those for sure, and that sucks. It just takes one of the current accounts from the capture sceners to get nuked because a new AI introduced next week has detected something offensive in a C64 demo from 1988.

I am so old my 90s raytracing scene contains a lot of displacement maps.

I back them up.

ps:

Thank you for sharing this.

I would like to point out an important item that did not really come through. I did not ask for exclusivity on a "marketing"/ego/agenda level. The fun for *me* in coding on this had been the challenge to provide the *best quality* demoparty stream, not a redundant one which is as good/bad as YT/Twitch.

And due to SceneCity having moved to low-latency HQ h.265 via SRT, and Twitch/YT not accepting that, we would have needed to share your very limited upstream bandwidth, creating two redundant streams with shitty quality. That would just have been a stupid thing to do, and no fun at all.

Since the beginning of 2024 SceneCity btw has the feature to be able to re-stream to YT/Twitch. It now can transcode to h.264 for those services and push them out via rtmp. Never has been tested or used, though, as SceneCity never again got asked to provide a party stream (besides GERP).

[9:50:16 pm] <scamp> are you even GOING to a doctor on a regular basis?
[9:50:20 pm] <scamp> do you have treatment and pills?

good riddance

actually good questions immibis. do you?

I just discovered it and as chatted with scamp on his platform I find his product very interesting. It's disappointing to see this project go and it's even more disappointing that motivation to shut it down is personal disappointment in the community. We all failed then.

No, we did not fail. I tested Scenecity and found it rather cool. But our group is slow and lazy in adopting such things. A lot more time would've been needed. If you read the rants here, it was already decided and Scamp just wanted us to fail his test, so he can have a good narrative for a dramatic departure.

while i applaud the efforts for pushing higher quality then YT/twitch (they are quite limited in that regard), and i also understand that the technical issues in providing "the rest" along with the highest quality possible makes it more work and infrastructure: as a party organizer i rather have more viewers and some of them complain about the quality being low, then have much less viewers and some of them complain they don't have good enough internet connection for the high quality.

when providing a service for events, you have to be aligned in providing for what they want/need, not to be constantly pushing them for what you think they should want, orgas don't have patience for long debates trying to convince them what is best for their party when they already have a vision locked in and are desperately running out of time (and sane headspace) to execute it all. they want either problem solvers they can delegate the thing to entirely or solutions ready to use, definitely not long debates on how they are doing it all wrong.

i think a lot of the friction you (scamp) had with other party orgas comes from that: from as far as i've known you you always had/have this very own strong view on how things should be run and always insist on your own way of doing things. which can be a great trait to have when you're the captain of the ship, provides the rest of the crew with a clear vision that they can row towards, and either they agree and help or they disagree and get out of the boat.

but when you're not the captain and are pushing your views on the captain, it creates unwarranted tension and chaos. ofcourse some feedback, or protips / suggestions / mentoring / whatever you want to call it, is always nice to offer to others early on before the captain gets to make a final decision, but there comes a time when a final decision needs to made, and that's made by the captain (or whoever is in charge of that department). Any debates and suggestions past that is just causing chaos and instability to the whole team, some people helping recognize when this moment as come and just step back and say "ok, if that's what you prefer, let's do it like that", while the people used to being captains all the time often do not recognize this moment and keep pushing for their "right way" to do things to the very end, which often causes more harm (to the team) then good (to the final product/experience).

ofcourse this is all relative to the project and the peoples personalities and how they already previously know each other and their own dynamics and past grievances with each other etc etc. it's not a clear cut science. but that's the feeling i have of where your "clashes" with other party-orgas mostly stem from.

bifat: Nope. Yes, it was a test, but the outcome has been surprising in multiple ways. Mostly to see that untergrund.net still is heavliy used, and with me just not having had any visibility into that during the last 20 or so years.

ps: Last year I had posted this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YmTKNaN07M

It always was just about the quality of the streaming SOURCE. We always had transcoding. And since early this year we have adaptive streaming for the viewers, meaning you no longer have to manually select a quality, it will auto-adapt to your current connection speed. I even tested that on a phone walking around.

In regards of how party orgas are responding to me: Besides the standard shitty social communication skills of mine, this imho mostly was an ego thing on "the other side".

People are very frustrated when I mention Breakpoint had much higher standards than Revision, for example. Or that this !TUM thing was just terribly organized compared to the actual fully unrelated and beloved TUM party, Under Construction and Zenta just because someone wanted to roll it alone without getting in any experienced orgas whatsoever on board, instead focussing on how to EXCLUDE people. A lot of hurt egos. And I have just hurt those egos again with this text. TBH: Their problem, not mine.

At UC I got the active feedback from orgas that they no longer wish to push boundaries but would rather just sit together as friends. Which is totally understandable, but due to this UC ended.

Because I love sitting together too, but I will not do a demoparty in 2024 that is worse than one I did in 2004 or 2014.

Just as democoder, I want to push boundaries all the time and every edition improve over the previous year. But competing in skills and "investment" is no longer the first priority in the scene. Which is OK, but it's just the wrong kind of subculture for me.

With today's priorities I'm useless and an annoyance, partly footed on my non-social skills, but there honestly might be a lot of jealousy involved, too. For the "I have found paradise for Nerds on Koh Phangan island" stuff I got a LOT of unexpected hate, expecting the opposite.

A perfect way to get the killing squads ordered against me for example would be:

"Revision is a bad copy of Breakpoint. Everything that is there has been copied, up to the way table setup up is coordinated and the bus timetable. But you left away all the creative crazy fun stuff, and while Breakpoint every year brought innovation, you haven't had any innovative progress at all in years. D.Fox originally promised when taking over Breakpoint that he would be mainorga for just one year, to enable a new generation of scene orgas becoming mainorgas, and completely broke that promise, instead keeping glued to his chair until this generation of easter party became the most boring thing ever. M&S was miles ahead in every regard over today's Revision.".

Can be seen as factually true (see for example the "opening ceremony" culture that got killed), or as an opinion you may disagree with, but saying this will cause a huge implosion on egos and the desire to kill me. Boy will I be hated again for this one. :)

Me just pointing out that with the current Outline location requiring to turn the volume down to whispering level was a draw-back also caused an Ego to implode. It was just meant as feedback. But these days in the scene it is very, very hard to voice these things.

We are still allowed to ANONYMOUSLY in demo compos, but if like 10 years ago you would publicly say "This is not very good." in regards of any aspect in the scene in public, you are in for a bad ride.

It's really a pity that voicing criticsm of performance of something now is a no-go in the scene. And even things that I would regard as totally non-offensive like the "demoscene infrastructure" subject will derail in minutes, with the constructive feedback being lost in the noise in seconds.

(OTOH, I provided very positive feedback on Deadline, because I saw lovely attention to detail this year on a level I had not seen before. So I am not always negative.)

scamp: ofcourse people will rile against you for saying shit like that about revision. it's directly offensive (and putting unwarranted expectation stress) to the team organizing it, a large part of which that even came directly from breakpoint, so it's even nonsensical in that regard to be nitpicking which one was better. every single party is different and every single party takes place on a different year (with different world culture shifts and people growing old and new people stepping in), it's also factually innacurate what you stated of lacking innovation, they had plenty new things throughout the years, and i clearly remember an opening ceremony existing this year, to say the least about that topic. it becomes clear that your statement stems from your own ego wanting to believe you did a much better job with breakpoint, says more about you then it does about revision orga team.

can't be bothered to answer the rest of the text, still trying to have a productive day today.

Sorry to interrupt this thread but I'm rather curious what this is about, is there any public info on this topic available, like the actual "paradise for nerds" thing?

Fine, I’ll bite, you have my curiosity. What’s this paradise for nerds on Koh Phangan Island?

I wouldn’t normally ask such an offtopic question, but you don’t seem to mind going completely off on a tangent on your own topic, so…

Lol LJ beat me to it.

It's a very weird place.

It is part of Thailand, but not Thailand. Seafarers from all kind of countries stopped there to pick up water and coconuts, and some decided "one moment - this is paradise - why the fuck should we leave again?".

And that went on. There was this huge move by people who were fed up with the western systems wanting to explore the culture of the east on their own. Many of those also ended up there. And then the esoteric people. And the techno scene.

All of this makes it a very, very special place with new stuff to discover every day. The mainland Thais call it "lawless island", because rules on what goes and what does not are made locally.

If you take the time to explore, over time in the jungle and on parties etc you will meet a fuckload of creative and nerdy people, including heaps of people on the spectrum that you seriously would not have expected to have the guts to move to a remote island.

That's kind of an executive summary.

I was thinking about doing some kind of "outreach" into the scene on this, but did not find a good way to do so.

Also, there is the unwritten rule of "Don't talk about it, else so many people will come that paradise is destroyed" ;)

I can post a book recommendation if anyone is interested. Google will only help to some extend due to the rule above.

Yep, got it.

No killing squad, have a hug instead <3 But ehat ps wrote.

*what, obvs

Thank you scamp that you leave our country for coconuts. We will keep your infrastructure running, so you can smoke weed and drink beers on your prefered beach location. Find some thaigirls and live the german dream... congrats ;-)

Idk but leaving the country doesn't mean shit w.r.t. taking care of the web service. Just checked out this SceneCity - looks (or looked) actually promising. Good privacy and moderation policies. I guess part of the reason it wasn't popular is people had little incentive to switch, but now with pouet's uncertain future things could change dramatically.

@Scamp (dunno if you posted that) That link for scenecity-streaming-ambassadors does not work, unfortunately. Just for info.

Thank you :D