pouët.net

@NR4: Seeing hundreds of people on a funeral does not imply the deceased one still being alive.

Is this funeral in the room with us right now?

There's a certain irony in claiming that scene infrastructure should be owned by and run by sceners amidst a flurry of "we're shutting down X!" posts.

It seems like the main takeaway is that people running things (mostly) by themselves eventually suffer from major burnout (for reasons exhaustively documented in these BBS threads) unless either a) ownership and maintenance is distributed or b) people online are going to be civil. Not sure which option is more likely, but one of them is at least attainable :)

I don't find it ironic.

It's a matter of cause and effect, and some people misunderstanding the order of those two items. Get the order right, irony gone. :)

I think "domino effect" describes this very well.

sagacity: But as you mention it, this is a very big misconception that's present in the scene these days.

1.) The people on the autistic spectrum believe that only their are, and more importantly, that only their very personal position on that spectrum is relevant. I have seen both in scene and work life that autistic people are far less tolerant about other autistic people around them than the "normies" are. And for a couple of years a younger generation has joined who very very very vocally demand that from now on only their depressions and problems and spectrum position counts. The scene these days is far less tolerant towards diversity in regards of autism than it has ever has been.

2.) It's not (just) the depressed and frustrated people leaving. It's more the other way round. A lot of people here assume I am in rage, hurt, frustrated or anything. I am not. I am more and more turning to a buddhist lifestyle.

3.) Most of the scene these days is in pure survival mode. Young people don't see a future, old people see their heritage destroyed, and everyone has to constantly put out fire. Do a anon survey inside the scene on how many people operate two Meters away from the cliff (of killing themselves) and a lot of people in the scene who think depression is an exclusive right to them might be surprised. And yes Lynn, I am looking at you.

4.) Some "of us" who are NOT in pure survival mode decide that we have reached a point where you can no longer help those in need, because there are just too many of those, and on top they are hostile. You can not be a good nurse for others if you have just been served a bleeding shooting wound on your chest.

To sum this up: It's not the frustrated depressed borderline people who are leaving the scene. It's the frustrated depressed borderline people who are the leftovers. But in their pain they just don't realize that.

I'll add an example for item 1.) because most likely some of the younger sceners need one to understand it (but most likely will start screaming in 3...2...1 seconds from now again):

Yes, in "your generation" being physically different or trans or non-compliant might have caused you getting bullied and hurt.

In "my generation" in ADDITION to that you already got bullied just for having and using a computer and being nerdy. It was enough not to be interested in sports to get beaten up.

Again, do an anonymous survey inside the scene to find out what percentage of sceners from ALL GENERATIONS all the way back to the 80ies got bullied and hurt and traumatized in their youth. The "young generation" of sceners would certainly be surprised.

The scene has originally been founded by people (mostly on the autistic spectrum) who wanted to escape getting bullied for being nerdy. The C64 copy parties and everything that followed was our "safe space" as it is called these days, our escape from a hostily world.

And if today's "scene historians" who hold lectures about a past they have not been part of would be informed better, this fact would receive far more focus.

@Scamp thanks for sharing your views and why's..
Nothing lasts forever and people come and go on the scene (and back again an than go again) only in your case alot of great infrastructure is going "with you"
I am confident most files and hosted websites will find a new home regarding undergrund..
Just treasure the amazing journey and experiences the scene has given you in your new buddhist lifestyle.. we all aint get any younger.. so enjoy what's left on the timeline thats given us is what we all should do!

We are living also in... not so good times. Things that we counted once for safe aren't anymore safe. Family bounding, wars, economical situation, fear what the future brings... Also we getting older and some loose the ease of the past days, some seemed to lose also that what we call humor.

Scene should focus on that what it is, scene and leave things out IN FULL like politics, sexuality identity, church etc. that are things that should not belong to scene life because in real life, we are confronted enough with such things and such things should stay also private.

Scene should be a place who you count ONE and ONLY as human being apart from all other attributes. PERIOD

We should also see, that still much good things going on there. Deadline as example, was a nice happening. Scene is not dead but in a longer term, we might lose a essential part of our history ? a (linux) "wget" for pouet to preserve things like pouet.net and some testings if also underground.net domains could be preserved too ?

We can not assume that only few people drive the "electronic circus" forever. On a long term, if there is no independent society that preserve pages our you can hand your pages to them, we are in trouble. on a medium term, we can only offer help where it´s possible for each of us.

The question is. How would we like to be remembered. How would we like to look back once we are REALLY OLD ? missed the opportunity to make peace with each other ? Life is short, very short. 80 summers ? 50-60 of which we live independently ?

Maybe its time to some of us to meet the inner child / kid that once seat in front of his Amiga / C-64 and remember, that it´s worth to keep this all alive, remember, how much joy we had.

A very clever man once created this thread:

https://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=2813

A big chunk of the sceners who are right now suffering from major depression and pain have decided, that "good vibes only" when it comes to communication should work to make things better.

Nobody re-evaluated if that actually has been true.

Ask a (good) doctor in neurology and/or in psychology (depending on if your depression is based on autism and/or trauma) if that is a coping strategy scientifically be proven to work, or proven to be fail and make things wose.

Or don't.

There are some people here who either want a pouet without drama/aggression, or a different site that is like pouet but without drama7aggression, or nothing of all.

The key is that you NEED such a place of drama. The scene in 35 years ALWAYS had such places. But what you also need are a couple of moderators who are NOT on "survival mode" right now, but are able to cool things down if a drama is dragging out too much.

There are some people in the scene. They are easy to identify. Maybe it's just that the scene (and/or pouet) should identify these people. You can recognize them for helping and fixing friendships etc inside the scene for decades. If you treat them nicely, they might to provide the scene the healing center.

"If you are mad, don't show it", "if you have pain, swallow it" and "I am ONLY am allowed to be depressed!" all are not going to work.

Suppression does not provide or enable healing, it prevents healing.

scamp is this here what you are doing know, how your (good) doctor told you to deal with your issues? Verbally taking a swing at everything that moves on an internet forum, is that part of your healing process?

Yes, it is.

Confront the problem and be open about your feelings. Don't hide pain.

Also fully in line with Buddhism, actually.

OK, is it working?

And, for those who think my approach is wrong:

14 days to count until SceneCity is gone, 59 until untergrund.net is gone, which are the last two services I am still providing. Then I'll go and leave you alone.

But yes, dealing with "unfinished business" is good for me. It also might be good for some other sceners. For those of you where this is not helping: Here is a little hint for a strategy if information received is not good for your health: Do not read it.

There are really a lot of other threads on this site.

If this thread is bad for "you", try tech talk:

https://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=8747

But yeah, I'll slow down on wall-of-texting now. Need to code, too :)

Dubmood: Yes, absolutely.

There are instances in the background, one of them with very strong force, who will stop you as soon as they see it's no longer helping anyone, most importantly myself.

For this evening we are close, but I haven't crossed that line yet.

So yeah, some people have food for thought now, others have food for drama, and others have food to count the days until I am gone :)

Good night!

"stop ME" of course.

magic just posted this one on the one-liner, and I find it something well worth reading in the context of what this thread is/was about:

https://www.hugi.scene.org/online/hugi34/hugi%2034%20-%20demoscene%20reports%20melwyn%20magic%20scene.org%20-%20behind%20the%20demoscene%20server.htm

Good night.

Thanks for posting my (and melwyn) article from 2008 😊

I have thought that partying rakishly, boozing heavily and socializing loudly have been quite important parts of (an early) demoscene. Contrary to your view, one implicit idea there being that you can be into computers without being a nerd.

(There is a satirical (and totally overblown) take to the issue, switching from a nerd to a scener, on pc-lamerit episode 0x03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMeO4qAG8WY#t=29m10s )

Now in turn, __most__ of people on spectrum probably don't find this concept very attractive, since they may rather prefer some more "nerdy" atmosphere which is more suitable for introverts.

The fact that it's a spectrum should be somewhat of a giveaway that this really isn't always the case :B

I guess it highly depends on where you are in the timeline. But I should clearly not have written "most" nor imply exclusivity when it comes to people on the spectrum founding the scene. Also, I am clearly biased. How would I, with very minimal social skills, gotten to the bottom of it?

OTOH, there had been conversations like "what, you have friends outside the scene?" and "what, you have a girlfriend?!" in the late 90ies including the from today's view very cringe times of someone bringing an actual girlfriend to a demoparty, with 500-1000 sceners staring at that female person, where both the part of people showing around their girlfriend as a trophy as well as *some* of those girls loving to be the center of attraction beeing very problematic from today's viewpoint, especially for the low, but growing numbers of female nerd/sceners joining having to fight not to be mixed up with girlfriend-a-scener-has-brought-to-show-off kind of females. In the end something good came out of it, but it was a muddy road.

Why am I mentioning this? Because I took this as an indication that the other sceners also have a challenging social life and assumed most are like me.

Anyway: I always found the subject "people on the autistic spectrum inside the demoscene" very interesting, but it never really became something that gained any traction as a topic.

Also, things have changed, and people ARE getting treatment these days. But you still find sceners who really are extreme textbook examples and suffering madly, who reject the idea that they are on the spectrum and their brain could be... debugged/tuned.

A couple of times in the last years I had offered to do a seminar on this, even once offering to bring a very proven neuroscientist that previously had me speak at a Doctor's conference and therefore owed me, but it was always found that the subject is something too hot to touch as a demoparty seminar.

[Will this thread make the world record on topic diversity? ;) ]

Scamp: You are derailing your own thread. :]

Yeah OK. Re-Railing is not really a term, but...

- I hope that the admin/mod transition of pouet will work out
- I hope that scene.org now is more than one active person and is safe
- untergrund.net will be archived
- We'll see what happens to SceneCity

And in general: Support your scene infrastructure, else you will miss it one day.

(Hello, Hornet.)

Exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly.
It's not very relevant.
You didn't. In other words: This is nonsense. People in the early demoscene explored their computers and met like-minded people for comparison and exchange of ideas about the topic itself. The earliest demoscene did not resemble a safespace at all. It was egalitarian - newcomers were not bullied, because they could rise to stardom in absolutely no time thanks to their achievements, and everybody knew that.
Good riddance Scamp, on your way to Buddhism you're heading into the opposite direction. Separate work from ego, and things become much clearer and easier.

In another world, another time and another place I sure would want to debate that.

And to close this from my side for today: I'm not on a way "to" Buddhism, it's just something that crossed my road going East, and that I therefore have to study. It's more of making sure to understand the vibe correctly before getting into a new community and subculture. RTFM, so to say.

'night.

It's probably done already, by all big multi-modal LLMs out there. Pouet (slengpung and other sites alike) is perfectly scrapable, no protection whatsoever. IANAL but it also looks all public domain to me. But I see the problem now. Demoscene started when Internet was truly free without big players trying to squeeze any monetization concept out of it. Now we are in different times. You are the product and you receive nothing from it. That gives zero motivation to release anything in public domain.