Sincere apologies
category: general [glöplog]
no black backgrounds -> no more violence, WTF?
nosfe: ask ep :p
gargaj: us mediteranean people are warm blooded so we sometimes have the need for quarrel ready to be satisfied ehehehehehe =)
as for the rest.. I think we're going around in circles. It's really simple actually. Would you want your production cut midway? Regardless its content as long as it stays within the set rules. If it was cut while others played to their full extent, wouldn't you feel left out, picked on and treated unfairly? If your answer to all of the above is YES, then congratulations.. you're a masochist or something... However if the answer is NO, then you should know better not to enforce that on someone else.
Nosfe has every right to be pissed.. and so do kosmoplovci.
as for the rest.. I think we're going around in circles. It's really simple actually. Would you want your production cut midway? Regardless its content as long as it stays within the set rules. If it was cut while others played to their full extent, wouldn't you feel left out, picked on and treated unfairly? If your answer to all of the above is YES, then congratulations.. you're a masochist or something... However if the answer is NO, then you should know better not to enforce that on someone else.
Nosfe has every right to be pissed.. and so do kosmoplovci.
ps: well let's put it this way: he would have been given a very sharp warning atleast. i'm not sure how my security crew would have handeled it, but since drunk swedes arent that easy to control they can be a bit tough. it's a matter of situation-to-situation judgment rather than just drawing a straight line.
but i would have demanded an excuse, and if none was given that would have been too much for me atleast. even if nobody got _that_ hurt it is an act that creates great negative atmosphere at the party and hence damages the party itself.
but i would have demanded an excuse, and if none was given that would have been too much for me atleast. even if nobody got _that_ hurt it is an act that creates great negative atmosphere at the party and hence damages the party itself.
Nosfe has a right to be pissed, yes. So I was as well, everytime i didnt make it even on the voting screen at the end of the party. I Apologize to Nosfe, but i know he will never forgive me. =D
in times like this, i can only feel pity for those who have forgot what does 'RESPECT' mean and how it once was a stonemile that has helped build society what we today take for granted and call DEMOSCENE.
it was before the times of large scale computer commercialization, when nowone has even dared to think on censorship of any kind, particurarly NOT genre based. with few practical TECHNICAL COSTRAINTS, each SCENER and its group was allowed to show whatever he has managed to make in his DARKROOM, whatever way of EXPERIMENTING with technology has he managed to (AB)USE in his work, whatever level of PERCEPTION has he managed to achieve.
unlike any other place, DEMOSCENE WAS UNIQUE PLACE where one's creation, whatever it is, had the chance to be shared and enjoyed FREELY and WITHOUT PREJUDICE. and each one participant of that vanishing scene knew censorship is bad and that it does nothing more than insulting persons who had engaged time and energy trying to create something unique, something new.
some may have liked your work, others may haven't, but there was always respect for each and everyone who had obviously TRIED to make something worthy. and even when there was arguing and hatewars, it was made through MORE WORK and NOT through CENSORSHIP! and all that RESPECT was shown at least in it's very basic yet powerfull way - everyone was always allowed to participate!
finally, we all know that there is NO such thing as GENERAL OPINION. there are only messages and there are only messengers. with COMPUTER as our companion, our messages are just meant to be out there, whether you like it or not. if you understand, react. if you don't, pass along and ignore it. someone's message may be as simple as 'WE ARE READY TO MAKE GAMES', but others think in much different way - and it all has it's reasons!
in some way, i may as well ask how would you react if some technical demo is being censored because of it's lack of concept. would you dare to tell me that TECHNICAL SUPERIORITY is MORE IMPORTANT THAN ARTISTIC EXPRESSION? is someone capability to become part of game industry more important than his ability to transmit something out of ordinary?? and how can anyone know what is the right amount if each of us has his own perception of reality? don't you ever ask yourself where does defining the genres ultimately leads? does your need to unification sound any more different than 1984? do you even THINK on the possibility that there may be a GENRE PER PERSON??
now.
with all due respect to party organizers (which i am also myself), i can clearly notice that nowadays AUTHORS have become LESS IMPORTANT THAN party VISITORS. too many parties are ADJUSTING and DELETING and CENSORING WORK, just to make it more jolly good to VISITORS and SPONSORS, to make sure next time MONEY will flow again, to BUY more drinks and to BUY more food and to BUY some of those advertised hardware and become that tiny part of all-round SPECTACLE someone dares to call life... the TIME and ENERGY spent by hundreds of people has become only the FLESH FOR THE BEAST, preselected by it's amount of callories - never too much fat and always carefully blended for satisfaction guaranteed.
do we all feel great, now, dudes?
do we all go to parties only to get drunk and pass out on drugs?
now.
PLEASE STOP RUINING THE DEMOSCENE.
it is the only remaining place where ideas and creation can STILL roam free.
progress just doesn't coexist with censorhip...
dominator/kosmoplovci
it was before the times of large scale computer commercialization, when nowone has even dared to think on censorship of any kind, particurarly NOT genre based. with few practical TECHNICAL COSTRAINTS, each SCENER and its group was allowed to show whatever he has managed to make in his DARKROOM, whatever way of EXPERIMENTING with technology has he managed to (AB)USE in his work, whatever level of PERCEPTION has he managed to achieve.
unlike any other place, DEMOSCENE WAS UNIQUE PLACE where one's creation, whatever it is, had the chance to be shared and enjoyed FREELY and WITHOUT PREJUDICE. and each one participant of that vanishing scene knew censorship is bad and that it does nothing more than insulting persons who had engaged time and energy trying to create something unique, something new.
some may have liked your work, others may haven't, but there was always respect for each and everyone who had obviously TRIED to make something worthy. and even when there was arguing and hatewars, it was made through MORE WORK and NOT through CENSORSHIP! and all that RESPECT was shown at least in it's very basic yet powerfull way - everyone was always allowed to participate!
finally, we all know that there is NO such thing as GENERAL OPINION. there are only messages and there are only messengers. with COMPUTER as our companion, our messages are just meant to be out there, whether you like it or not. if you understand, react. if you don't, pass along and ignore it. someone's message may be as simple as 'WE ARE READY TO MAKE GAMES', but others think in much different way - and it all has it's reasons!
in some way, i may as well ask how would you react if some technical demo is being censored because of it's lack of concept. would you dare to tell me that TECHNICAL SUPERIORITY is MORE IMPORTANT THAN ARTISTIC EXPRESSION? is someone capability to become part of game industry more important than his ability to transmit something out of ordinary?? and how can anyone know what is the right amount if each of us has his own perception of reality? don't you ever ask yourself where does defining the genres ultimately leads? does your need to unification sound any more different than 1984? do you even THINK on the possibility that there may be a GENRE PER PERSON??
now.
with all due respect to party organizers (which i am also myself), i can clearly notice that nowadays AUTHORS have become LESS IMPORTANT THAN party VISITORS. too many parties are ADJUSTING and DELETING and CENSORING WORK, just to make it more jolly good to VISITORS and SPONSORS, to make sure next time MONEY will flow again, to BUY more drinks and to BUY more food and to BUY some of those advertised hardware and become that tiny part of all-round SPECTACLE someone dares to call life... the TIME and ENERGY spent by hundreds of people has become only the FLESH FOR THE BEAST, preselected by it's amount of callories - never too much fat and always carefully blended for satisfaction guaranteed.
do we all feel great, now, dudes?
do we all go to parties only to get drunk and pass out on drugs?
now.
PLEASE STOP RUINING THE DEMOSCENE.
it is the only remaining place where ideas and creation can STILL roam free.
progress just doesn't coexist with censorhip...
dominator/kosmoplovci
This is True. Indeed. But keep in mind that not all artists are pure angels. Not all artists have only good things in mind. And there its a infnite loop between freedom and censorship.
As long as the Demoscene is running inside this loop and discussions about certain things are still around, it will stay alife. If we just give our souls to the authors, by letting us force stuff we dont want to see, or the other side, let us only see things which are "good", there will be no competition anymore.
Where Shadow is, must light be. Or in modern words: Where Crap is, is also a good Demo.
I dont want to say this thing what happened was unnescessary, but it might told us a lesson! (Me too, hehehe)
As long as the Demoscene is running inside this loop and discussions about certain things are still around, it will stay alife. If we just give our souls to the authors, by letting us force stuff we dont want to see, or the other side, let us only see things which are "good", there will be no competition anymore.
Where Shadow is, must light be. Or in modern words: Where Crap is, is also a good Demo.
I dont want to say this thing what happened was unnescessary, but it might told us a lesson! (Me too, hehehe)
there is like two reasonable replies for this thread and they're both authors of wilds.
i'm a consumer whore
fuck you all!
fuck you all!
shutting off demos after asking the audience has occured on parties before, and so did preliminary subjective announcing that certain entries will be 'boring', 'not worth watching' or whatever adjective might have been used.
i for one would be pissed aswell if i actually made the preselection but would be fucked over like that afterwards.
anyway, props to kb for the apologies. other people aren't cool like that.
i for one would be pissed aswell if i actually made the preselection but would be fucked over like that afterwards.
anyway, props to kb for the apologies. other people aren't cool like that.
BUT NOONE EVER MADE FUN OF SOMEONE'S LOADERBÄR THO! *sob sob*
Quote:
do we all feel great, now, dudes?
do we all go to parties only to get drunk and pass out on drugs?
sums up my latest expirences of demo parties (and also the reason why there's a no-go embargo on demo parties during master thesis :)
*points at Maali's loaderbar*
it's not mine!
mh ps, actually an entry that is shown to an audience but not for the audience is nothing more than an insult. i dont care much about your personal interpretation of artistic freedom if you dont care at all for my entertainment. presentation of art works on mutual agreement. if you fuck up this agreement, reactions will be harsh and unpleasant, its as easy as an equation. i also dont care for ideological reasons. using 10 minutes for boring me to death and KNOWNING that you will do so (unless youre completely deaf and blind about other peoples minds) can not be compensated by any belief that you might probably have invented to back your actions. you can discuss with me to eternity about that issue. you might almost convince a lot of people that urine is healthy and has its place in sexual foreplay (as there are a few people who dig it), but it will always taste like piss. piss at the audience, audience is ps'ed.
lay down your weapons of mass destruction.
lay down your weapons of mass destruction.
domin8r, word.
paniq, that would mean that there will be no provocation in art anymore. and provocation is what always have driven aesthetics further, from aristophanes and certain ancient chinese painting schools over the impressionists (one really has to imagine how "eye-insulting" their techniques were in their time) to the futurists, dadaists and john cage. if they all would orientate just on the pleasing of the audience/spectator there would be no aesthetical progress.
paniq, that would mean that there will be no provocation in art anymore. and provocation is what always have driven aesthetics further, from aristophanes and certain ancient chinese painting schools over the impressionists (one really has to imagine how "eye-insulting" their techniques were in their time) to the futurists, dadaists and john cage. if they all would orientate just on the pleasing of the audience/spectator there would be no aesthetical progress.
paniq: i totally agree! finally a sane point of view!
if these avantgarde people so want to show their works of art, go show them to the avantgarde people. the demoscene is about demos and having fun, not art. though art _can_ be a part of it, but it is not the main purpose. that's what i think anyhow.
if these avantgarde people so want to show their works of art, go show them to the avantgarde people. the demoscene is about demos and having fun, not art. though art _can_ be a part of it, but it is not the main purpose. that's what i think anyhow.
if these avantgarde people so want to show their works of art, go show them to the avantgarde people
ever thought about that more then 50% of sceners could at least sympathize with the avantgarde?
anyway, it is nice to have intra-aesthetic discussions in the scene, it only shows the developement and maturity of the scene as a creative subcultural movement.
first sentence is a quote from the above post by gemini, fucked up the bbcode... :/
dippy, i'm as well insulted by 100% recepy "pop" that just walks on the well asphalted roads that others have established.
if this is the initiation of something new, it is definitely not at its height of implementation. actually in its current form its a waste of time.
i already said, i dont care much for ideologics here.
if this is the initiation of something new, it is definitely not at its height of implementation. actually in its current form its a waste of time.
i already said, i dont care much for ideologics here.
gemini, your posts prove that you don't think, but just act being an asshole.
paniq, you're an asshole too. please go and die so that i won't have to kick your ass the next time i see you.
anyway, conclusion of this thread:
me and the elite rule,
repressive people with their heads inside their asses suck.
paniq, you're an asshole too. please go and die so that i won't have to kick your ass the next time i see you.
anyway, conclusion of this thread:
me and the elite rule,
repressive people with their heads inside their asses suck.
sucking with a head up your ass might not be a good, it will give you a mouth full of shit! ;)
a=your ..and it might not be a good IDEA. Me needs sleep.
nosfe: i love you too. i really appreciate your diplomatic qualities. that is very rare, to meet someone who is so open to new ideas, understanding, incorporating criticism in a constructive way, really driving the scene forward with ambitious exploration of new techniques and styles. your name will be remembered long after your death, if only for the kilt.
gemini, paniq: yeh well, you're stuck in the "scene should be fun not art" mentality. my condolences for you not beeing able to understand the importance of abtract emotional response in the modern scene. i can only suggest a strict diet of deesbab, bakkslide7 and hplus to compensate your unbalance. let me know when you realize scene isnt all just about technical skills and having fun so we can resume this discussion. i also would like to apologise in advance for any traumatique experiences that you will keep experiencing at demoparties, couz we care about emotion not just skills and jokes, and we're sceners too, we aint going anywhere.
"i just hope you love to hate me as much as i hate to love you"
"i just hope you love to hate me as much as i hate to love you"
