pouët.net

krill: you're right, misunderstanding on my behalf, I take that one back

kabuto: If we can reduce the topic to just a few naming issues, that would be fantastic. Parties were commonly referred to as copy parties until into the nineties.
The first international party I remember was the Static Bytes & Light 1991, almost certainly (also) referred to as a copy party, but it was a demo party in the truest sense, absolutely no difference to parties nowadays, and an overwhelming demo focus. And it was huge, ca. 200 attendees. Correct me if I remember it wrong. How different was it in 1987? Were demomakers just a kind of "creative avant-garde" inside the (mostly cracking) scene? Was specifically Denmark a creative hotbed? Totally fine by me.

Oh for f*ck sake. As long as it’s totally fine by you. And I thought I didn’t have the strength to write one more letter here. Seems you inspire me man. ;)

Can we please have a neutral 3rd party to make a summary of this thread at this point?

if you ignore the posts of those ~3 people that post ad nauseam, the thread is still quite concise and informative

that would be spinning thumb, 4gentE and dubmood, who have made themselves cabbage :)

^ deutsche photon

hotmm: I think we have found a volunteer!

bifat: you forgot okkie and his other sockpuppet. =)

If you ignore Harry and Lloyd here and their pitiful pose, it’s all pretty clear.

To be fair, @bifat may have some valid points. The way it is conveyed tho, both at the transport layer of ad personam attacks, as well as where the claims are made makes it pretty useless. It’s easy to attack other people work from the moral high grounds of sideline commentary. I would love @bitfat — and I am very not ironic when I say this — to publish all this, for one to get his opinions peer reviewed, but also because then they can properly be a part of the discourse and some meta analysis.

Until then well — unfortunately — that’s just, like, your opinion man. And there’s not much options to take it seriously into account other than trolling on the interwebz.

Maybe going through the (for instance) csdb to trace the early prods and cross referencing them with the cracker scene is something worth pursuing to have more quantitative data on this then few memoirs.

Cheers

I think it would be a better idea if somebody who is already making scholarly research would take these points and incorporate them to their own thinking in order to form a more balanced view.

That is of course a way to go about it, like taking bifat’s opinion as an interesting hypothesis counter to the mainstream narrative on demoscene origins, and working one’s way from there. That’s why I mentioned looking at the csdb in the later part of the post.

The problem with it is that it would require at least to some extent repeating work that allegedly was already done by bitfat. None scholar can just take a random hearsay slash opinion from an online forum as quotable reference 🤷‍♂️ I know it’s a whole lot of work to go though peer review or even basic journalistic fact checking process compared to arguainh with strangers on the internet, but maybe it’s worth it

I've not got a picture that bifat would have gone through databases systematically enough to make a paper. He has just merely rised up few productions to emphasize his points. So the work probably remains to be done anyway.

angelo: The ad-hominem attacks (and strawman arguments) came by others first and were far more numerous than the counter-attacks, though.

i sure do hope any confusion OP had about the scene has been cleared up after 10+ pages of this

Yes. So, is there any more questions? :) Our board of experts would be happy to answer!

so, are demos art? what is art? what is a demo? what computers now fall under 'oldschool' and where did I leave my keys?

does zx spectrum needs to be subdivided? is browser a platform or do we all just javascript?

Board of Experts is a great group name, so why is it still untaken?

ok, we can wrap this up!

Are demoscene compos popularity contests or do they actually measure artistic and technical merit?

while we are at it... =)

in what?

A music video, obviously!