Non-scener's confusion about the scene
category: general [glöplog]
"Non-scener" because I just watch demos on occassion and nothing else.
I have a silly question, but I'll lay some stuff out first:
If I had to guess, so far (~1 year), I'd say this is all basically...
80s/90s kids from Europe, who were into programming on PCs, started showing off their skill by making multimedia demonstrations on said PCs. Then it exploded into a subculture.
That makes sense enough in itself, but here's where I tilt my little head...
I've seen:
- the top 5-or-so demos (of any platform) on this site
- all of Kindergarten '95 or '98 or wtvr
- some YT-reccomended classics, like 2ndReality
So much of the content I've seen from these works is so... bizzare to me.
Like, it's cool, but it's... JUST cool. Like visual ASMR.
Especially with all of the shapes and textures and camera pans and shit.
Other than that, I can't see how the art goes much deeper, most of the time.
I understand that a programmer probably looks at that and knows what it took to make, and is impressed, but still...
The way that is done seems weirdly homogenous.
Like there's some unspoken conventions, or atleast a *ton* of inside jokes in this whole subculture.
Idk. If I *had* to guess again, except this time about the artistic value and like why sceners make things the way they do:
Europeans are entertained by vaguely "cool" things, like dancing geometry and acid synth. Oh and their sense of humor is... *norwegian*.. like "haha an apartment building is warping!". Actually on second thought that acid synth thing makes sense...
Anyway, my question: do I get it? Would *you* tell me what the deal is? :3
I have a silly question, but I'll lay some stuff out first:
If I had to guess, so far (~1 year), I'd say this is all basically...
80s/90s kids from Europe, who were into programming on PCs, started showing off their skill by making multimedia demonstrations on said PCs. Then it exploded into a subculture.
That makes sense enough in itself, but here's where I tilt my little head...
I've seen:
- the top 5-or-so demos (of any platform) on this site
- all of Kindergarten '95 or '98 or wtvr
- some YT-reccomended classics, like 2ndReality
So much of the content I've seen from these works is so... bizzare to me.
Like, it's cool, but it's... JUST cool. Like visual ASMR.
Especially with all of the shapes and textures and camera pans and shit.
Other than that, I can't see how the art goes much deeper, most of the time.
I understand that a programmer probably looks at that and knows what it took to make, and is impressed, but still...
The way that is done seems weirdly homogenous.
Like there's some unspoken conventions, or atleast a *ton* of inside jokes in this whole subculture.
Idk. If I *had* to guess again, except this time about the artistic value and like why sceners make things the way they do:
Europeans are entertained by vaguely "cool" things, like dancing geometry and acid synth. Oh and their sense of humor is... *norwegian*.. like "haha an apartment building is warping!". Actually on second thought that acid synth thing makes sense...
Anyway, my question: do I get it? Would *you* tell me what the deal is? :3
Quote:
Other than that, I can't see how the art goes much deeper, most of the time.
Rule of large numbers really. With a big enough audience and long enough history, there's always some deviation to the mean; what you say is also true for any other artform, like music or movies.
It didn't start on PC, but otherwise you get it. Especially with regard to unspoken conventions, tons of inside jokes, weirdly homogenous output, artistic depth, sense of humor...
Great question! Welcome to pouet and the demoscene.
Your analysis seems basically correct. Many of us were kids in the 90's and got developmentally stuck there.
As an analogy it also takes time to develop a sense of the aesthetics of red wine. First time you try it you wont know your Primitivo from your Spatbergunder. Just takes time and lots of tastings. It also helps tremendously if you try to make some yourself. Good luck!
Your analysis seems basically correct. Many of us were kids in the 90's and got developmentally stuck there.
As an analogy it also takes time to develop a sense of the aesthetics of red wine. First time you try it you wont know your Primitivo from your Spatbergunder. Just takes time and lots of tastings. It also helps tremendously if you try to make some yourself. Good luck!
Quote:
Europeans are entertained by vaguely "cool" things, like dancing geometry and acid synth.
Flawless
Quote:
Would *you* tell me what the deal is?
I would say I'm here for (not in particular order)
* Competition, learning from badass coders
* Friendship with like-minded people that love to create/produce
* Audience and attention, honest feedback on my work
* No external boundary conditions wrt content, quality or quantity of my work
* The underground vibes
* The family-like feeling.
Let them be confused. We need lamers.
Quote:
Other than that, I can't see how the art goes much deeper, most of the time. I understand that a programmer probably looks at that and knows what it took to make, and is impressed, but still... The way that is done seems weirdly homogenous.
When I think about the demoscene as a whole, all the compo categories and releases... I think there's pretty much experimentation and efforts to be unique and stretch boundaries. Whatever it is, I don't think it's homogenous (though no doubt there's also lots of repetation, copying and adherence of traditions). Perhaps getting more of it would widen your perspective.
If you want to read an article which tries to orientate a laity to the demoscene, see pages 38-41 on this pdf
https://skrolli.fi/2016.1e.illuminatus.pdf
Quote:
Let them be confused. We need lamers.
I'm just joshing dw I vibe with yall.
the nice thing about demoscene is that it's multiple things at the same. so for your principal/boss/partner it could be an internationally acclaimed multimedia competition that you spent months preparing for while for you and your friends it simultaneously could be a great opportunity to hang out and get drunk/high/out of the house/etc/etc/etc
Quote:
Anyway, my question: do I get it? Would *you* tell me what the deal is? :3
Counter question: what's the deal with enjoying pasta, chess or coffee?
Quote:
Quote:Anyway, my question: do I get it? Would *you* tell me what the deal is? :3
Counter question: what's the deal with enjoying pasta, chess or coffee?
pbbbbbbbt ur a dumdum
I shouldn't have spoken EU's dreaded name... shit I just did it again, what's next!?
Huh?
Lol, a flattery with underhanded insults, nice.
I guess the term you are looking for is "internalized oppression".
As for artistic choices: it's just a rotating cube to a saw wave tune. Some people like watching it spin, nothing particularly european, scandinavian or wherever you were born.
I guess the term you are looking for is "internalized oppression".
As for artistic choices: it's just a rotating cube to a saw wave tune. Some people like watching it spin, nothing particularly european, scandinavian or wherever you were born.
Visual ASMR, that's cool I'll keep this :)
Like any subculture, you cannot grasp the true nature without being immersed in it :3
It's like lynn said. When you're immersed, the inside jokes don't feel like inside jokes, and the motivation to work within (or to the limits of) the unspoken conventions is completely pure. None of it feels forced or conscious when you're doing it, which is why it's then always so amusing to stop for a moment and reflect from a layperson's perspective on what the hell you're doing.
Suspect at least some of this, for me anyway, relates to being socialised into this young, as a voracious demo "consumer" in my childhood.
Suspect at least some of this, for me anyway, relates to being socialised into this young, as a voracious demo "consumer" in my childhood.
The demoscene is different things to different people, but maybe the "windows100%" magazine put it best:
Deliver cool demoshock to the japanese brain.
Deliver cool demoshock to the japanese brain.
The scene evolved:
- from crackers who enjoyed making intros more than actual cracking
- through very good coders who tried to achieve things hitherto considered impossible on the respective platforms
- to a community of people interested in creative computing and computer arts.
At the same time people's manners in online forums remained at the childhood stage and many memes and inside jokes appeared which were perpetuated in the productions (e.g. "rob is jarig").
- from crackers who enjoyed making intros more than actual cracking
- through very good coders who tried to achieve things hitherto considered impossible on the respective platforms
- to a community of people interested in creative computing and computer arts.
At the same time people's manners in online forums remained at the childhood stage and many memes and inside jokes appeared which were perpetuated in the productions (e.g. "rob is jarig").
Quote:
dancing geometry
This is because during the early years of the demoscene it was a difficult programming task to make a home computer draw animated objects in realtime so demosceners naturally sought to out-do each other at it. As a result, such animated objects became part of the aesthetic of demos in the "demo-ish" style, and there remains the instinct to have the objects on-screen be all moving every frame lest the demo appear to be "non-realtime".
only in online forums?
[quote]Counter question: what's the deal with enjoying pasta, chess or coffee?[/quote/
And I took this very personally.
And I took this very personally.
I propose to go to a demoparty to have the full demoscene experience - better even to go to two - one small&cozy local one and one big international one like revision or assembly
This thread feels a bit like a troll but at the same time, I've often find it weird that people outside the scene, even those with a bit of knowledge in programming, never got the thing behind the scene.
This looks like legit critics of the demoscene from the point of view of people who used tools that do everything for them and think "wait, it's not hard to do that"; like when you spent hours to just display that cube and people go "but wait, I can do that in few lines with - insert lib/framework"; so yeah it's a good dig, it hurts a bit I guess?
You have to define what you mean by "deep" here.
Quote:
Like, it's cool, but it's... JUST cool. Like visual ASMR.
Quote:
"haha an apartment building is warping!"
This looks like legit critics of the demoscene from the point of view of people who used tools that do everything for them and think "wait, it's not hard to do that"; like when you spent hours to just display that cube and people go "but wait, I can do that in few lines with - insert lib/framework"; so yeah it's a good dig, it hurts a bit I guess?
Quote:
I can't see how the art goes much deeper, most of the time.
You have to define what you mean by "deep" here.
Quote:
and inside jokes appeared which were perpetuated in the productions (e.g. "rob is jarig").
I would be very happy if the demoscene could put some of the very tired, stale memes to rest at some point. E.g., shouting “Amiga!” isn't fun anymore, just old. And definitely not very creative…
