On the history of the term demo
category: general [glöplog]
Serpent: Totally on topic, nice finds! I even remember Axel-F by Zodan and Ace from back then. Here's another: https://csdb.dk/release/?id=93506
I'd say they all easily pass as full demos, are on the artsy side and especially The Judges would be considered a modern demo group (although they called it "program"). I haven't seen dates however, even after reading through the whole scroller and its dirty jokes =)
I'd say they all easily pass as full demos, are on the artsy side and especially The Judges would be considered a modern demo group (although they called it "program"). I haven't seen dates however, even after reading through the whole scroller and its dirty jokes =)
Forgot about finnish Pure-Byte https://csdb.dk/group/?id=905 (well, at first namely Yip) who have some 1985 stuff with own music (but no date...). Fifth Dream About Happiness has a date though, 9th of April 1986.
I find the Pure-Byte stuff from 1985 too rudimentary, but cool music. Their 1986 output Fifth Dream about Happiness already rocks hard!
It also mentions Atari ST in the scrolltext, would be interesting if there's ST stuff to be found from pre-1987. The earliest production I'm aware of is https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=32516. The hotbed of the demoscene seems to be on the C64.
It also mentions Atari ST in the scrolltext, would be interesting if there's ST stuff to be found from pre-1987. The earliest production I'm aware of is https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=32516. The hotbed of the demoscene seems to be on the C64.
Quote:
It also mentions Atari ST in the scrolltext, would be interesting if there's ST stuff to be found from pre-1987. The earliest production I'm aware of is https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=32516
In the scroller of that ST intro they write:
"HELLO TO TEX / WE WILL REACH YOU"
So it seems like TEX was earlier than Exhaust Port? TEX first demo: READ_ME.PRG (March 1987)
Buuut, I think Eckhard Kruses Grafik Und Sound Demo (Nov 1986) and Grusel Demo (Feb 1987) should be included here, even it's not the classic rasterbar+scroller demos.
I pick Eckhard Kruse! For the others have no visual effects, or are past 1986.
I've seen Delta Patrol before, it was considered amazing for its opposite direction scroll, but no sound. Audio Light Inc. is interesting though, a commercial entity producing tech demos, in support of their shop maybe? :)
So full-blown modern demoscene on Atari seem to date to 1987 from The Exceptions and Exhaust Port?
I've seen Delta Patrol before, it was considered amazing for its opposite direction scroll, but no sound. Audio Light Inc. is interesting though, a commercial entity producing tech demos, in support of their shop maybe? :)
So full-blown modern demoscene on Atari seem to date to 1987 from The Exceptions and Exhaust Port?
On with 1985 demos: Fred Gray was a very active C64 musician, and cooperated with several groups. So here IS another full demo from FCG. CSDB says it's from 1985 (Pouet: 1986)
Robot Walk, FCG https://csdb.dk/release/?id=21096
Robot Walk, FCG https://csdb.dk/release/?id=21096
i hadn't heard of exhaust port until today tbh, tex definitely were the best in the early period. but i'd still go for acc as first active demoscene group on ST, the prod itself is pitiful by today's standards no doubt, but in every other way their activities before (on c64) and after (on ST) show that their intention was to do demoscene stuff
btw the really first thing i saw on a computer that i'd call a demo is https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=52335. yeah yeah yeah, i know it says (c) tandy on screen. but leo made this demo completely on his own, on a store bought machine, to show his skills to the world, without any help from tandy engineers, they just published the demo.
Fred Gray is still active today, maybe he can contribute more on early C64 demos using his music. Possibly his 1985 tune was ripped from somewhere else, it's difficult to tell.
@havoc: I think Dancing Demon in universally considered the first demo around here. I hold it in high regard for both its technical and artistic value. It's just not from a demoscene, as there was no such thing around...
@havoc: I think Dancing Demon in universally considered the first demo around here. I hold it in high regard for both its technical and artistic value. It's just not from a demoscene, as there was no such thing around...
If anyone is interested in seeing demos published in a magazine from the old days, look at ZZAP!64 from issue 10 onwards. They started doing features on the artwork being uploaded to Compunet (February 1986) and by issue 14 (in June) they're regularly mentioning the term demo in the feature. Incidentally for some old c64 uk sceners Compunet would be one of the earliest places they had access to demos. It's also where sceners like Bogg, Demon, Matt/Psy, The Meanteam etc. regularly uploaded their work.
bifat: true but being released while a demoscene already existed is a requirement that turns this into a chicken-or-the-egg type of question. so i'll just go with "fish laid eggs half a billion years before chicken" ;)
havoc: Excellent metaphor, however a sociotope can't be a totally binary matter and doesn't pose a chicken-egg condition. By just adding a few (arbitrary of course) criteria we've approximated a possible beginning to the range between 1985 (e.g. Robot Walk, Axel-F) to April 1986 at the latest, with Pure-Byte my favourite with everything in place and self-made. As it turned out (to me at least) a demoscene was around and lurking, as was the term demo, but a big missing piece of the puzzle was a group's ability to supply music. The same fate plagued especially the Amiga scene, which for a long time had to resort to sample loops. No problem with sample loops, but few had the ability to make the sampled music themselves...
Superb 1984 demo, saved for reference:
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=27291
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=27291
As I remember it until Sound Monitor appeared in '86 it was difficult to find an editor that had usable export routines, unless you coded a driver yourself. Some early commercial editors like Master Composer and Electrosound were used to make demo songs, and some sceners even reverse-engineered game composer's drivers to make new tracks back then.
Having said that there are demos from that era that focus specifically on extracted game music, so having the new tune from a game first was probably an extra plus in releases too.
Having said that there are demos from that era that focus specifically on extracted game music, so having the new tune from a game first was probably an extra plus in releases too.
as for the 'demo' term in computer graphics context... you can see a "color demo" program listed in this Apple II thing from 1979: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiWE-aO-cyU
bifat, is your second name photon?
Whilst it probably wasn't the first ever demo to be released, here in the UK a lot of people's first introduction to watching a demo was probably TRSI's classic 2-disc megademo on the Amiga 500 (1.2 or 1.3 Kickstart / Workbench). It was spread fairly widely at the time, so if you attended a local-ish computer club where a blind eye was turned to lots of screens running X-Copy, then you were in with a chance of seeing it and getting a copy to share with your non-club attending mates too.
Mind you, we have to be careful if challenged by UK customs, on driving back to the UK, if we get asked by an officer where we've been and what we've been doing. Mentioning the Netherlands is bad enough, as they automatically think we've been to Amsterdam and are potentially in possession of weed, but also, using the word 'demoparty' has led some officers in the past to be of the impression that is something to overthrow a country's government or some shit like that. Therefore we tend to use the phrase 'digital arts festival' and that allows us back.... :)
Mind you, we have to be careful if challenged by UK customs, on driving back to the UK, if we get asked by an officer where we've been and what we've been doing. Mentioning the Netherlands is bad enough, as they automatically think we've been to Amsterdam and are potentially in possession of weed, but also, using the word 'demoparty' has led some officers in the past to be of the impression that is something to overthrow a country's government or some shit like that. Therefore we tend to use the phrase 'digital arts festival' and that allows us back.... :)
havoc: You can click on my profile, there'll you find my second name =)
Felice: We watched some demos at a friend's place (who was running a BBS) - among them RSI's megademo, Vision Factory and others. It was clear then that that's what we wanted to do, and (re-)start TEK on the Amiga for that, as it was the local group in that town. Their last C64 demo was from 1988, while at the same time there were only some active on the Plus4.
@maali for the term "demo" in the computer graphics context, and some more, you could check Engelbart's The Mother of All Demos from Dec 9, 1968. Just for completeness.
not really: "The Mother of All Demos" is a name retroactively applied
Thank you very much for your contributions!
Here's a short timeline and summary; additions, corrections, criticism welcome.
1979: Dancing Demon by Leo Christopherson; TRS-80 demo; solitary/company
1983: Demonstration by Thomson-Brandt; Thomson TO7 techdemo¹; company
1984: Boing by Dale Luck and RJ Michal; Amiga techdemo; company
1984: For example...; Atari XL demo¹; solitary/company?, fully artistic expression
1985: Axel-F by Sodan and Ace; C64 protodemo; cracking group, music by Bogg (artist)
1986: Fifth dream about happiness by Pure-Byte; C64 demo; demogroup
1986: Rhaa Lovely by The Judges; C64 demo; demogroup
1986: Grafik und Sound Demo by Eckhard Kruse; Atari ST demo¹; solitary
1986: IBM Music VIII by TEK; demo¹; demogroup
¹ by self-description "demo", "demonstration", "demo/intro"
A few takeaways from my end:
- 1986 is the year of the demoscene, and Pure-Byte and The Judges are pioneering groups.
- There's little indication to me that demoscene is an outgrowth of the cracking scene.
- The Judges and TEK were pure demogroups and don't seem to have done cracktros at all.
- By no later than 1987 demoscene has erupted on all platforms.
Here's a short timeline and summary; additions, corrections, criticism welcome.
1979: Dancing Demon by Leo Christopherson; TRS-80 demo; solitary/company
1983: Demonstration by Thomson-Brandt; Thomson TO7 techdemo¹; company
1984: Boing by Dale Luck and RJ Michal; Amiga techdemo; company
1984: For example...; Atari XL demo¹; solitary/company?, fully artistic expression
1985: Axel-F by Sodan and Ace; C64 protodemo; cracking group, music by Bogg (artist)
1986: Fifth dream about happiness by Pure-Byte; C64 demo; demogroup
1986: Rhaa Lovely by The Judges; C64 demo; demogroup
1986: Grafik und Sound Demo by Eckhard Kruse; Atari ST demo¹; solitary
1986: IBM Music VIII by TEK; demo¹; demogroup
¹ by self-description "demo", "demonstration", "demo/intro"
A few takeaways from my end:
- 1986 is the year of the demoscene, and Pure-Byte and The Judges are pioneering groups.
- There's little indication to me that demoscene is an outgrowth of the cracking scene.
- The Judges and TEK were pure demogroups and don't seem to have done cracktros at all.
- By no later than 1987 demoscene has erupted on all platforms.
Quote:
There's little indication to me that demoscene is an outgrowth of the cracking scene.
In any case, wouldn't that have been a much later event, i.e. after the police had started cracking down on copy parties, and concerned people started organising "legal" parties? You seem to be conflating the existence of pure demo groups with the existence of a demo scene.
Yes, the degree of illegality was low in our case, every group meeting turned into a party, and then you sometimes had bigger meetings with other people from other groups, also always turning into parties. It was important to have booze, and watching and copying the stuff, and doing your music/gfx/code, not unlike what we have today. Ok, it was more about copying than today.