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TL;DR: Brazil lacked computer culture, i want to introduce demoscene culture to the art community here. But i'm also a beginner and would be cool to have some guide for it (and maybe this topic could be it, or another topic).

Not only a programming guide for tricks (nothing advanced, only so i don't do the lamest of the demos), concepts, techniques, but a culture guide (terms, concepts and stuffs) so i can "map" people for demoscene...
Don't need to bother if you think resources you would give are "too much to ask for".
Or tell me if i'm overthinking based on the concepts i posted on "the point" section.

Also, is there other brazilians here?

Also, sorry if there is other topics talking about alike things, this website should have a search system, hehe... And sorry my english grammar mistakes and the wall-of-text...

--- END OF TL;DR ---

------- Introducing myself (you can skip it):

My country had a problem with dictatorship and they nationalized the technology market in the 80's (https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol%C3%ADtica_Nacional_de_Inform%C3%A1tica), consequently, we had no C64 or ZX in the 80's and the computer culture here don't grew up. There was just a clone of ZX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TK95) which very few people had.

You can't even find videos about BBS on youtube, this have not happened in Brazil...

I programmed once c++ when i was 13yo, but i was a dumb teenage and saw no usefulness for me and stopped (i could say i never programmed at that age), i began to program being auto-didact (and without caring about conventions) only in 2017, but never at full-blow-training, since i never had time then (getting old, need money, doing other stuffs)...

However, i was one of the few kids in the 90's that had a computer, it had MS-DOS and Win95... I loved MS-DOS, because i was kid and 90% of my games were on MS-DOS, Doom was literally my first game.
However, sadly i never developed my programming skills in the 90's, but MS-DOS was good to give me a "less-lay" introduction to computers than modern people with modern windows.
However, i was not lay about demoscene, i just don't knew the name, i saw few ones and it was just "cool computer art" to me, but i never grew out of the passion i had for the 90's animation and stuffs.

Now that i'm older and with nostalgic feeling, i decided i can't leave this life without doing some demos on my favorite OS and console:
MS-DOS and Mega-drive...

Before learning programming, i was making music, and once i noticed that "Music is Math" - Boards of Canada, i decided to use Max/MSP to do some stuffs. I never cared much about good mastering (even being an audiophile), i wanted more to do unique compositions and effects... This made my interest to programming grow.

Consequently, i feel i'm ready to begin my journey in the demoscene.
I consider myself mid-school, because i saw oldschool stuffs when kid, but i was never deep and knowledgeable of the demoscene culture, so this would also make me newschool. However, i can understand very well why some demos from 90 - 95 are so appreciated even if some people think those are boring, since i was a kid that thought "Descent" was such a high-tech stuff when i won as a birthday gift, hahaha.

------- THE POINT -------

Ok, so the point is that i feel brazilians should marvel themselves with such amazing culture that is demoscene, warez, diskmag and all those stuff... It is so cool, even out of Brazil, this culture is pretty underground...

I'm not a popular artist (i wouldn't even call myself an artist), but i know some artists here that have more fame, i talked to a friend and he said he could "make a way to showcase my work to the art community", but i don't want it to be "aww, artsy :3" like academic artists (nothing against, but well, we all know there are "those type of artists"), i want demoscene to keep the essence, i just want more people here to know how cool this is, like when i marveled by "cool computer art" when i was kid...
In fact it is pretty unlikely that i get even a bit of fame out of it (at my position as artist, but who knows?!)...

And as i said, i have some knowledge in music production, i wont say i do the best music and mastering ever, but i think that is already a step to do some cool demos, since i know how to synthesize some stuffs in PCM...

Of course i highly doubt my first demo would be "wow, so cool"... Free feel to downvote till oblivion when i post my first one...

I saw some people asking help, like this post here:
https://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=12309

But seems like it lack some "steps to demoscene"...
Whenever i check some demoscene tricks, like this chart here:

I can even try to research independently each of those concepts, but it never explain me in the way i want to apply for a demo and i have to wander through multiple sources with lot of information i don't need (come on, flying animals?!)...

I learned how to do a scroller here, and that is indeed very very easy:
https://github.com/BitSavage/demoscene_javascript
And in fact, in my head, when i thought about designing a scroller, i though about a very similar code structure...
Am I overthinking or doing a simple demo isn't thaaat hard?
However, this code wouldn't satisfy certain devices architectures (but i won't ask for that, this would be "asking too much"), so i think it might be a little harder on other devices (but it still seems to be easy)...

I found things like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executable_compression (it was in the FAQ, but i knew about it around the internet before);
https://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:demo_programming (this one being the best i found, since those assembly codes are understandable and easy to port to other processors, like 68k);
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXDCpqBNHEQ (I'm still watching this one, but that seem like a great introduction, don't?!)

WHAT I MEAN IS THAT:
I can even find some tricks online, but i think that would still make my demo suck more than an average person (if i'm not overthinking), is there a "how to demo", or better, "how to not make a lame demo"? Like the chart i posted above, but more detailed? I don't aim to "be the best", just not suck in such a horrible way...
Something like "demo tricks", like we name skateboard tricks...
Is demo such a "you need to be a good programmer to be part of" thing? Am I overthinking? Are there definitive guides for demoing? Youtubers (i found that Ferris guy because that topic above, he seems to be popular)? Can i apply those concepts as it is and it will be fine or there are some "demo tricks" i should be aware?

And lastly, nothing you should care, and unrelated to my questions, just explaining what i aim for, but...
... Since i'm not much into visuals, i thought about focusing in doing music, i always thought 8-bit is a lot for music, come on! Dividing a wave in 255 steps is a lot! I think lot of systems could have amazing timbres (even more than lot of good demos that make good synthesizing systems), not that i would be the one to break-out the sound quality, but i would like to do something...

I'm also going to do it all alone (even if someone want to be my partner, i'm getting old and i'm lacking time, so it would be sad for someone to expect something from me and don't see "full dedication")...

AND, FINALLY...
... I'm ready to do my first demo, and i think i'm going to do on MS-DOS (DoxBox, or FreeDOS, but probably all on DosBox)... :)
Just want some education on "demoing" and that is it!

Early thanks! And also, hello world!

I think your first step is to actually make that "lamest of the demos". You don't have to release it, but you will learn a lot from the experience, and can judge for yourself what you need to work on to improve from there. There's no demo scene academy or template to follow, just make something.

If you want to do an MS-DOS demo you will most likely need to dig into decade old documents and source codes to get some insight into how pixel-based demo effects work. Things like
- rotozoomers
- movetable-based effects (tunnels)
- 8x8 UV grid-based effects
- software 3d routines (rotation, projection, clipping)

There‘s a ton of stuff over at the old Hornet archive:
https://www.hornet.org/code/

For Mega Drive I suggest you have a look at stephane‘s excellent SGDK:
https://github.com/Stephane-D/SGDK

More tips:

- Start with a tiny project (e.g. one polished effect + picture + text/scroller) and actually finish and release it. Participate at a real demoparty if you can to experience the feeling of seeing your production on the big screen and meet like-minded people. A well-designed tiny project will get you more respect and satisfaction than a rushed ugly 3min effect show.

- Work together with other friends. It is way more rewarding and fun. Solo dev kills you (speaking from experience)

Hi ySPHAx, welcome! Great to see you're keen in getting into MS-DOS programming :)

I would second Spike in that working on a tiny project but making it polished is probably the best way to start and most rewarding. Bettet to release something small but neat than starting with a more ambitious first project and (most likely) never finishing it.

A few resources I could think of:
Source code folder on scene.org. A bit messy, not everything is ms-dos, but you should be able to find stuff that's helpful:
https://files.scene.org/browse/resources/code/sources/

The FreeDOS YouTube channel has some tutorial videos about programming for MS-DOS, although I don't know if it's any good:
https://www.youtube.com/c/FreeDOSProject/videos

Finally it seems there were a few demoparties in the past in Brazil. Quite a few BBS too!
https://demozoo.org/search/?q=brazil&category=

Oi cara,

There some Brazilian people here, like danguafer, but if you follow exocet's link you'll find more. If you want to have a chat about the scene in portuguese you can always join our scene.pt discord, where we say "camisola" as in sweater and other funny stuff. :-)

Bem-vindo! Valeu!

Brazilian demosceners as recorder on Demozoo:
https://demozoo.org/search/?q=brazil&category=scener

Also sorry for the lack of clickable links in my previous message! Still learning ;)

There's this paper too: https://abciber.org.br/simposio2014/anais/GTs/emmanoel_ferreira_144.pdf

for x86/MSDOS this is where to start from

https://www.jagregory.com/abrash-black-book/

lots of ressources for the beginner

https://www.pcjs.org/documents/books/programming/

I always found the best way to get stuff done is create the vision first and then see what kind of technology you need for it - incidentally that's how it's done in a professional (e.g. game dev) environment.

Sit down, design the demo you wanna do, and then extract from that what you need in terms of tech - it's way more productive to go up to people and say "hey guys I wanna learn how to do a voxel twister on DOS in 256 colors", than to just go "teach me SOMETHING on any platform idk".

Yeah, demoscene resources are all over the place and this can be confusing for a newcomer. Since you are doing it all alone, may I suggest you take a look and use a demotool? I know they are on the Windows platform and not on the dos you are interested in, but heck wouldn't it be more easy for a starter to do something on a modern day platform?

Wow, thanks a lot, i wasn't expecting so much answer, that is too much to answer for now, so i hope you guys don't mind about a mere thank you! And i'm *really really* thankful for all the help you guys gave me! :)
Gonna check every link you guys gave!

So happy about this!

And, going to join it @jeenio... :)
Just got home now, I'll give you a hi there in a minute...

There is also: https://hugi.scene.org/online/coding/

Most people working on DOS (Dosbox) are sizecoders: people targetting demos/intros e.g. 256 bytes and smaller. One reason for this is that 16-bit code is somewhat more dense than 32-bit code. Thus, I recommend joining the Sizecoding discord and start asking questions on the x86 channel:

https://discord.gg/PxExfENdUv

Even if you are not targeting the 256 byte category, you probably have to learn some assembly code; at least to set the video mode. A useful reference: http://www.sizecoding.org/wiki/DOS

If you don't want to write assembly, but prefer C-code, OpenWatcom is your friend (personally, haven't tried, but I hear that's the way to go): https://github.com/open-watcom/open-watcom-v2

After you have the compiler working and you have stuff setup (set the video mode, got a pixel on screen, etc.), then the fact you are targeting DOS starts to lose its importance. The main limitation is number of cycles and that you don't have GPU. So no shaders.

The classic effects include e.g. tunnels, fires and water/rain and plasma. Try implementing those. It might be worthwhile to write them first e.g. in a fantasy console such as TIC-80. Once you get the hang of working pixel by pixel, then port it to DOS.

Now, the last remaining challenge is audio/music. I recommend using a pre-existing mod/xm/it/whatever player, as audio coding is a bit grudge work and requires somewhat deep knowledge of things. I guess MIDAS and others still work, but my knowledge is not up to date, so going through this list might get you what you need.

After that: godspeed, and send regular updates about your progress!

drudge work meh I can no english

Oh, one more thing: the great thing about modern DOS and oldschool development in general is that all your tools don't have to be on DOS. So, for example, you can use modern tools to make your 3d objects, and write a simple file converter that outputs a format more suitable for DOS. You might even e.g. export the file as C-source code, so you don't even have to write a 3d object loader on the DOS side...

The file converters/packers/what not tools can be written in e.g. Python, or whatever modern language you prefer. Things you might want to do with such tools:
- Generate lookup tables for trigonometric functions
- Convert images into suitable format (e.g. 256 color PCX)
- Convert 3D objects into suitable format
- Compress data and code
- Pack sprites/fonts into textures
- Precompute 3D effect into buffets (static scenes you save different buffers like texture UV coordinates and normals so you can move e.g. light source, even if you cannot move camera)
- Convert audio/samples into suitable format
....

in4k is also a good starting point with lot's of resources. It even has sources for ms-dos as well. :)

Hi there,
this is Arleka (aka Arlequin^PVM^Impure^HPM) from Argentina.
on the subject Brazil-Demoscene:
- There was a demoparty in Brazil long time ago, I can't remember the name, but you could reach out some of their organizers.
- There are some active people from Brazil (Eg: Enzo from blocktronics), and some other guys who participated in the last Flashparty editions
- Some other ppl from Garoa hackers club in Sao Paulo are also kind of involved in the demoscene (we made a music disk greeting to them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzAirWD7cjI)
- I remember seeing 2 or 3 guys from Brazil @ Revision 2019. Can't remember their names, sorry
- There are some ppl from .BR on chat.rebelion.digital too
- we are holding a demoparty (flashparty.rebelion.digital) in Buenos Aires in October 2022. If you are interested to attend, please reach out to us.

ArtEngine

Hey South American brother!

You're welcome to take part of Flashparty 2022, we'd love that you come to visit us, but you can also send remote entries and follow the event via streaming.

Check our invitation video here

Anything you need to know is at Flashparty website.


What part of Brazil are you from?

Ty you @pestis with the links and the tips... :)
I'm going to check those out, because i was using Borland C++...
I was struggling to understand how to change the colors of the imbued pallet...
I was trying what this guy (root42) was doing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyfuQFBDbKU
But somehow, my pallet doesn't change the colors, i need to figure out what i'm doing wrong... Maybe if i mess it at assembly level would help me.

And thanks for pointing out about sizecode and tunel, i think everybody must know that demo:
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3397 (TUBE)
This was one of the first DOS demo i saw and i was marveled by it being made in just 256b... :ooooo

Also, now that you said about assembly, maybe i'm going to change a little my practice, but i was coding it on Visual Studio, and the intellisense really helps, it just can't compile on VS, but i would just copy-paste in the Borland file and that is it... :)

And also, thanks for those tips, i know a little about 3dsmax and photoshop, maybe i can do some cool things with those... :)
But i noticed people use GrafX2 for oldschool stuff, would that be better?

Ty for the link @Defiance!

@arlequin
Hola, hermano! :)
Ty! I don't even knew those events happened, makes sense that it is in São Paulo, since it is a more dense (in population) and richer city! :)
Going to check out the @Gargaj link, ty you too!

And lastly, ty @uctumi!
I'm still at the beginning of my journey, so i think i might take a while to make things work, i'm stuck on some VGA coding in DOS already, hahahaha! Omg! xp
But i may see what i can do...

Anyway, if i miss this one, i'll keep in mind that there are chances to participate in this event!!!

By the way, i live in the south of Brazil...
If one day i gather some money, i would love to visit you guys, isn't that hard to go to Bueno Aires, in fact, it is border of my state... :)
At least it is a good thing that isn't so hard to travel between S.A countries...

Sorry spamming, but, also, two resources i found that are good imo:
https://www.youtube.com/c/root42 <- lot of oldschool computers
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChibiAkumas <- same, also, lot of assembly teaching!