Suggestions to reunite the demoscene
category: parties [glöplog]
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Also. To use your line of arguments, I have missed out on demoparties because I did not have a drivers license and I somehow didn't see it as segregation. Many people have no access to cars or public transport due to various reasons and that's not segregation as well. So I kindly ask you to stop these (IMHO) nonsensical and unhelpful "comparisons". It's ridiculous to start a thread about finding solutions and disagreeing with solutions that are brought up by people.
Cars do kill lot of people.
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Suggestions?
You've made it abundantly clear that you don't agree with the rules that most demoparty orgas have in mind. So the only real solution is that you organize a party yourself, with your own rules. Gabbie has already done that, maybe you could join forces?
I'll make an example: under current conditions we can only have 200 people in the EWerk for Revison because regulations dictate a 15sqm space per visitor. Vaccinated or unvaccinated does not even play a role currently. So no matter what I want to do, we could not do Revision for the amount of visitors that would probably like to attend. And we also can't do it for just 200 people because of the cost involved,because that does not go down in the least because we still need the whole venue as well as the infrastructure no matter how many people attend.
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Quote:Also. To use your line of arguments, I have missed out on demoparties because I did not have a drivers license and I somehow didn't see it as segregation. Many people have no access to cars or public transport due to various reasons and that's not segregation as well. So I kindly ask you to stop these (IMHO) nonsensical and unhelpful "comparisons". It's ridiculous to start a thread about finding solutions and disagreeing with solutions that are brought up by people.
Cars do kill lot of people.
I'm sure there's a vaccine certificate for that.
Arab, we basically agree. And I would never try to get in the way of an organizer to set the rules. This here is for ideas on reuiniting the demoscene, based on the insight and taking it as a given that not all people who'd like to attend a party are going to show a vaccination certificate at the entrance. The question is: What would be a possible common denominator? Hence the idea to have an outdoor area. But it's not solely about the Deadline party. There are other possible solutions, like many smaller regional demoscenes and parties - and this would even be supportive of the "safety first" idea.
> "not all people who'd like to attend a party are going to show a vaccination certificate at the entrance"
until it's safe to have unvaxed people around there is no middle ground here. do, or gtfo.
you can watch most of the parties online.
until it's safe to have unvaxed people around there is no middle ground here. do, or gtfo.
you can watch most of the parties online.
Havoc, I and others are working on that, but it takes time, and the current situation is rather challenging for newbies who wish to organize a party. I'd be much more in favour of visiting existing parties!
arab, no. "Online" are no parties for me.
By the way you keep saying "reuniting" but that implies the split is somewhere in the middle or close to it.
Out of curiosity, what's the proportion between "unvaccinated but still wants to go" vs "vaccinated and wouldn't go if the party doesn't demand proof of vaccination"?
Out of curiosity, what's the proportion between "unvaccinated but still wants to go" vs "vaccinated and wouldn't go if the party doesn't demand proof of vaccination"?
> no. "Online" are no parties for me
can't help you there.
can't help you there.
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> no. "Online" are no parties for me
can't help you there.
I don't like those very much either but you can't deny that this is currently doing more for the demoscene than not doing events altogether. But it might segregate the people without access to fast internet...
Gargaj, I'm observing a multitude of splits running in all directions. Vaccination is just a prime example, because this segregation can be nailed down to a single yes/no condition, that cannot get interpreted away. Most other rifts are social dynamics, and we're ultimately getting sucked into them until there's no demoscene anymore. My basic idea is that people need a lot of fresh air (literally and metaphorically) and meet personally much more often to keep this subculture going. Because sitting on a computer all day for your hobby while there's also internet and (social) media can't be healthy for long.
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people without access to fast internet...
totally agree - and reading this topic is making me anxious too, and we should probably stop here.
@Gargaj - isn't it time to lock it? All that could be said - has been already.
[quote]can't be healthy for long[quote]
this + my previous post
this + my previous post
Y0Gi: Considering that unvaccinated people are not necessarily covid deniers I'm pretty confident that it'll mostly be the vaccinated who'll pay less and less attention to hygiene rules because they're "immune" now, I mean it's kind of part of the "get vaccinated so we can go back to normal" deal.
I can only harp on the delta variant theme once more:
Mind you that this is among general population during the summer months, not large groups locked into confined spaces for multiple days during winter.
The executive summary of my pov is this:
I can only harp on the delta variant theme once more:
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New York Times - Israeli Data Suggests Possible Waning in Effectiveness of Pfizer VaccineAnalyzing the government’s national health statistics, researchers estimated that the Pfizer shot was just 39 percent effective against preventing infection in the country in late June and early July
Mind you that this is among general population during the summer months, not large groups locked into confined spaces for multiple days during winter.
The executive summary of my pov is this:
- Doing a traditional demoparty in this highly volatile and evolving setting currently is not a good idea, no matter the measures put in place
- Education over coercion is the only sustainable strategy, otherwise people will just work their way around things
- There's no "normal" to go back to and for the most part that's actually good (work from home, digitalization etc.)
- The population is not B/W, we're all individuals, some seriously need to stop generalizing anyone who's critical about anything of this to be an anti-vaxx conspiracy nut
- Having to identify via smartphone and ID/drivers-license everywhere you go should be something seen critically, and it has been seen like that before during the push for fighting terror (at least here in germany)
What keeps you from getting outside and meet sceners in your area? There's always small gatherings in various cities around Europe. I for example am outside every day to take a walk and I regularly talk to other sceners and sometimes (mostly time and health restricted) meeting them in person as well. I do not need a demoparty to keep in contact or being productive.
DFox, nothing. I'm having a walk every day, I'm meeting demosceners every weekend currently and several times more during the week. Yes, this is currently the solution to stay healthy. But I'm extremely lucky to live in a place where I have about five demosceners in walking distance alone. One after the other reports serious mental health problems, depressions. The degree of deterioration that I'm observing on the internet is devastating, and I suspect that many people aren't as lucky as I am.
LJ: I would not assume that vaccinated people will suddenly disregard the previous regulations such as mask wearing or disinfecting. I'm vaccinated for a while and never even thought about stopping "being safe" especially because me being vaccinated still poses the risk of infecting people. You seem to want to preemptively pushing the blame for further outbreaks to people who were sensitive enough to the topic that they got the vaccine to try and help getting the whole thing under control and I don't believe (without numbers and sources) that this will be the outcome of it all.
It will all be more complicated for all of us until the panacea arrives, so we should get used to not being able to do some stuff, and not being able to it as easily as before and sometimes being "excluded" by some rules. I can live with that.
Imo a party would only be feasible / responsible with vaccinated people AND tests. A valid individual PCR test before and one at every day of the party. This might seem as overkill to some, but a party that kills a fellow scener would be a real tragedy. There are apparently PCR pool tests (all samples tested together) which are cheaper and sufficient for the purpose.
Some ideas:
- Make the parties shorter (< 48 hours). Yeah. This sucks, I know.
- Make a party preregistration to get a ticket. Clearly state your (organizers) minimal viable party option. Let the people decide if they're ok with that or wish for extra security. Ask them how much more the social ticker may cost / how much they can / are willing to pay for their ticket.
- Social tickets for sceners with less funds.
- Make the fast compo a PCR compo: While you're waiting for the results, create a demo.
Full disclosure: I'm mostly idling here. My last party was Evoke 2018, which I enjoyed, but I'd like go to another demo party next year if possible.
Imo a party would only be feasible / responsible with vaccinated people AND tests. A valid individual PCR test before and one at every day of the party. This might seem as overkill to some, but a party that kills a fellow scener would be a real tragedy. There are apparently PCR pool tests (all samples tested together) which are cheaper and sufficient for the purpose.
Some ideas:
- Make the parties shorter (< 48 hours). Yeah. This sucks, I know.
- Make a party preregistration to get a ticket. Clearly state your (organizers) minimal viable party option. Let the people decide if they're ok with that or wish for extra security. Ask them how much more the social ticker may cost / how much they can / are willing to pay for their ticket.
- Social tickets for sceners with less funds.
- Make the fast compo a PCR compo: While you're waiting for the results, create a demo.
Full disclosure: I'm mostly idling here. My last party was Evoke 2018, which I enjoyed, but I'd like go to another demo party next year if possible.
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DFox, nothing. I'm having a walk every day, I'm meeting demosceners every weekend currently and several times more during the week. Yes, this is currently the solution to stay healthy. But I'm extremely lucky to live in a place where I have about five demosceners in walking distance alone. One after the other reports serious mental health problems, depressions. The degree of deterioration that I'm observing on the internet is devastating, and I suspect that many people aren't as lucky as I am.
It's sad that people suffer like that. I still don't think that it's our obligation as a community to be the sole "savior" of these conditions. There's professional help for that that should provide a safer way of dealing with it as well as maybe fight the underlying issues which the depression might come from. I doubt it's "not enough demoparties". As a severely depressed person myself, I found a couple of other outlets for my depression by diversifying my interests and not relying on the demoscene as my cure-all.
And why tf are people nagging about that digital vaccination certificate / app? Not the point. Bring some official statement or your vaccination pass...
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Havoc, I and others are working on that, but it takes time, and the current situation is rather challenging for newbies who wish to organize a party.
Sure, and as cherry on top you'll probably break a bunch of laws if your party ends up being even remotely successfull. So I can certainly imagine how it's a daunting challenge for you and your team. So I wish you good luck!
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I'd be much more in favour of visiting existing parties!
Be real, it's not likely at all to happen any time soon.
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Be real, it's not likely at all to happen any time soon.
:'(
havoc, nonsense. I've been at four real life demoparties since beginning of 2020, two of them abroad, all legal (I guess)... size does matter, as well as the degree of outdoorishness.
Then what's your problem? That's more parties since 2020 than most people go to in that time frame :)