pouët.net

Some polemic address first:

Now that some of us may be getting vaccinated against the alpha variant, can we perhaps become a demoscene again - suggestions?

There are people that I know do not get vaccinated for religious and health reasons, and there are people who may not for other reasons, I myself reserve the right to not show a certificate for entering a demoscene event, for reasons I'm not willing to disclose. Hints: I may be vaccinated - or not, or it may be a project of mine - or not.

So, seriously, can we keep it a little bit civil and constructive? How to deal with this?

It may be a bit blunt, I'm willing to donate EUR 500 to Deadline for allowing a bit outside inclusion and minimal facilities, and another EUR 500 for an outdoor bigscreen. It's the best I can think of at the moment.

I have a suggestion for you bifat, why don't you just stop the trolling?

the

And aspirus officially just broke the thread already. You will fit very well in here and i welcome you.

Literally offers a 1000 euros for a little bit of inclusivity and gets accused of trolling.

- Demoscene 2021

How would an outdoor bigscreen work actually? Force all unvaccinated people to stay outside for thee days? Other than that I see no benefit in that if everybody will mingle back inside after the compos.

I'll try to sum up what I gathered from the previous threads - mostly for myself to try to filter through the noise. I will not go into the arguments of segregation or forcing anybody to get the vaccine - that's another story for another thread.

We seem to have three groups that are trying to come together:

1. Vaccinated people
2. Unvaccinated people (for whatever reason)
3. Party organizers

Then we have the respective arguments and wishes from all of those groups (massively reduced to keep this informative)

- There's a wish from unvaccinated people to attend demoparties
- There's a wish from all groups to not forcefully exclude other groups
- It has been said that organizers should do the best to protect the minorities

So, that IMO presents us with the following scenarios for which I will make some assumptions.

Assumption a: Testing requires the personal data from the person tested for contact tracing (at least in Germany)
Assumption b: Validating a vaccination certificate will have to come with a proof of identity
Assumption c: People returning from a demoparty will do their best to be sure they do not come home with the virus and therefore infect others after the event

1. Allow negative test results as admittance to the party
Most people will be able to attend but it comes with a number of problems:
- Tests have to be done at least once a day, even if a person presents a negative test result upon entry. Therefore on-locatoin testing has to be done
- Tests are expensive and should be done by medical personnel or at leasted trained staff
- Tests (especially the antigen tests) are not reliable enough for a multi-day-up-close-and-personal event such as a demoparty
- One positive (or false positive) result will end the party immeditately for all participants and might mean monetary loss for the organizers as well as damaging the image of the party (amongs frustration etc. no all accounts)
- A vaccinated person might carry the virus and pass it on to a tested, unvaccinated person
- Likelyhood to have to raise the entrance fee to accomodate testing

2. Require testing of all people, not just the unvaccinated
- Points mostly as above but with increased cost and testing capabilities at the event
- Likelyhood to have to raise the entrance fee to accomodate testing even more

3. Only allow vaccinated people at demoparties
- Organizers can sleep at night
- No direct harm will be done for minitory groups

For me as a party organizer, option 1 is not good enough for me as there's still a substatial chance of infecting an unvaccinated person. Option 2 is better, although coming at a substantial cost to the event and therefor the people attending. For me personally, only option 3 is currently (August 2021) viable to mitigate the risk of infecting unprotected groups and not to risk shutting down the event prematurely.

Another caveat - I'm not speaking as Revision. These are my personal view on the issues and they will be discussed and presented at an upcoming organizer meeting for Revision 2022.

Big misunderstanding, sorry. An additional bigscreen of course, may be much smaller than the one inside. I imagine something like a couple of bar tables and pavillons, and some display. That's all.

It has been said multiple times that this is no simple problem of inclusivity but of medical health and protecting unvaccinated people.

Still means that the unprotected have to stay outside for three days, doesn't it?

If it brings so many problems, why not simply stopping to organize demo parties at least temporarily until things settle down ?

Yea, vut it's no big deal since there's no sleeping facilitate anyway at Deadline. So people get to their hotels and friends in Berlin, and return to the party at Friday and Saturday evening.

That would definitely be option 4. Though we have no idea how long that will take so I'm making assumptions for solutions between now and whenever the time of herd immunity or "virus mutating enough that it's no longer a risk of death" comes.

Ok, makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Things would be falling even more into place considering that some guests would probably put up a tent outside, so they have some place for socializing after getting up, and can have some coffee and cigarette. People might want to go outside anyway for smoking. (So it'd be obvious to make the inside a no smoking area.) With these ideas combined, a handful of people would probably hang around outside anyway (you know the motto), even though it's some kind of a bet on passable weather. Others might find it convenient to have a smoke and virus free "safe space" inside.

Yeah that'd be awesome, an antivaxxer camp right outside the door of your demoparty

reuniting whom with whom? i only see the same 4-5 people constantly arguing against a majority consensus.

When a person from a visible minority is present, prioritize protecting them.

protecting them from what exactly?

the virus they don't want to get vaccinated for.

(Unless they're women, in which case it's their fault.)

To protect them of exclusion from social life. I have named them in the initial address.

I think from the organizers perspective allowing or organizing a separate camp/screen/even toilettes/bar whatever takes also that thing into the responsibility of an organizer what contradicts to what D.Fox wants to achieve...not even talking how that would even work on a personal level between guests at a Revision size event...I hope within 1-2 years we don't have to think about those things anymore due to vaccination/herd immunity/medicine/low hospitalization levels/etc. ..., but for now I can understand the organizers point of view totally...

And well... protecting who from whom?
Who is "afraid" of whom then... The majority of the vaccinated dudes, who should have been protected with the "the cure" (cool music group, btw) against the minority not-vaccinated, or that not-vaccinated minority should be aware of being "kept on eye" by those who should feel "safe"?...

We can't help you from exclusion that you either chose yourself or has other medical or ethical reasons that are beyond our control. We can only try to do so but there is no guarantee of success.