pouët.net

Do you really have knowledge of all these "movements"? I don't mean Wikipedia or any school knowledge, i mean real knowledge. Do you know the symbol Fasces and where it is used? Do you know the connection of italian fascists and the Vatican? Do you know how Knights of Columbus tie to this? No.

I wouldnt't boast those curse words so loudly if you don't know what you are talking about :)

It is also an element of the Swedish police logo: https://polisen.se/Areas/Polisen/Content/Images/Polisen.svg
But you don't need a degree in esoteric fascism to have an opinion about a political party, you just have to judge them from their actions.

You very clearly are reading the words "A middle-aged white man in 2021." differently than me :)

(Also it's hate speech, because "Deep down, I want to be a Cambodian police woman". ;)

So, my point is proven here: This is exactly an example for the outside influence I am talking about. This "let's bring up someones sex/skin color/gender to delegitimize their opinion" stuff clearly is nothing that the scene has invented or agreed upon. It is outside influence.

As is "hateful speech is bad". After 35 years of Fucktros and 15 years after "we have to keep the fuck you" this clearly isn't an idea the scene has developed, it's outside influence.

Off-topic here, so we really should take that part elsewhere:

I am living in a world that is fucked up, broken, run to the ground, in general I dislike humans, so it's very logical that I want to be able to use "hateful speech" to a certain extend. And more often then not, the label "hateful speech" gets applied to "speech I just don't like", and the decision on what "hateful speech" is in most parts of the earth are now decided either by Governments without any democratic decision finding process, or by US platform operators. For a lot of communities that used to make their own finding processes on ethics these are now getting forcefully replaced by standards others have done. You know it's true. I guess it will be hard to find a majority of sceners (if even one) who found a naked Dutch butt on a beach offending.

Long story short: My unpopular opinion here is a well-founded opinion by a person with a significant brain capacity and experience. It doesn't need much brain capacity to have a "A middle-aged white man in 2021" keyboard macro. :)

(Above post was missing quoting kb. You'll figure it out.)

Waiting for #billgate.
And most fearsome #a20gate

Besides, bonfires emit an intolerable amount of carbon dioxide.

I'll bring my Covid-19 era <0.05 micron particle filtering air washer and throw it onto the bonfire, problem solved.

This. I am not middle aged, i am from the middle age. This is important. Aber kein Sex mit Nazis. Absolut ekelhaft.

I don't think the impact of #GamerGate should be underestimated. #GamerGate was the push back against the blatant corruption in video-game ""journalism"" and the ""equality"" ideology which pretends to combat sexism/racism etc. while, in practice, achieving the opposite result (which is the business model, outrage sells)

Equality for profit in 7 easy steps

1. Make outrageous and false claim about a group of people ('gamers are sexist pigs' in this case)
2. Get the expected and justified push back
3. Ignore and even censor reasonable critique
4. Highlight the most aggressive reactions and 'death threats' (or just fake them) and show the world how much of a victim you are. This 'proofs' that your outrageous and false claims of Step 1 are correct.
5. Ask for donations in your battle against the 'evil sexist gamers'
6. Laugh your way to the bank
7. Rinse and repeat

This business model can only work with the support of ""journalist"", luckily it only works on the short term as eventually people figure out what's going on. As we say in Dutch, "Al is de leugen nog zo snel, de waarheid achterhaald hem wel"

I agree with Optimus that #GamerGate was a turning point as it was such an obvious scam and a symptom of a much bigger problem.



PS. Your comment is a great example of how the conversation gets killed on subjects like this (also proofs Scamps point from earlier). You pretend to open up the dialogue only to slam it shut immediately. How is telling anyone that they "will get shit for it" productive?

speaking of nazis... it's 'achterhaalt', Gabbie ;)

better step up your stackenblochen game, weakling!

Yes, I do read them differently because I try to understand what people say and don't just skim words on a superficial level.

Also let's not get into Cleese's embarrassing fuckup too much here, the whole thing is sad enough.



This is clearly untrue. Case in point: This is how the scene operated since its beginning. There are literally hundreds of stories from women out there how they were constantly being asked "whose girlfriend are you" and "do you even know how computers worked", so delegetimizing people on their sex alone? Check. (And I know, your usual 'rebuttal' is 'but there were women at demoparties who were just someoneone's girlfriend' - just spare us the time because so far you have never been able to explain the logical leap from there to treating _everyone_ this way.)



As I say, I try to understand what people are saying here - so you're saying "behaving like not a complete dick and treating people with respect comes from outside the scene, so fuck that"? Because it clearly seems so.


no idea what that was about, except moving the goalposts and trying to spin some connections where decent human behaviour is suddenly.... neoliberal? Sorry, I don't get it.



Congratulations, you're now Literally That Guy!

Let's not forget here that this is utter hogwash, and that Gamergate started with basically Revenge Porn in text form because some poor guy's ego couldn't handle being dumped, and he wrote a giant pamphlet trying to politicize it, and people fell for it. The whole journalism angle came bc that ex gf was a game developer, and when people realized that two other guys involved in the original story were game journalists, they started spinning giant stories about corruption and how it's all about ethics and whatnot, and spammed Twitter with it until enough other people were in the scam.

That's the whole thing.

It's fun, isn't it? How there's this pattern, that simple things always need to be escalated into giant walls of text with "politics", when the original incident was always some random jackass being served consequences for their own actions or, _gasp_ being CRITICISED, but nooo, we can't have that, let's start rambling about SJWs and cancel culture and how we're the ACTUAL victims.

It's the same thing here in the scene - nobody was ever cancelled or destroyed or what the fuck you're all going on about. Called out on shitty behaviour? Yes. Shown the door, _once_? Also yes. But cancelled? Not a single fucking time.

And you know what? It's fucking _TIRESOME_ to try to argue that against multiple people who clearly have time to write thousands of words of incoherent bullshit and try to bury you under their sheer volume alone, and everything just because I don't like the people I care about treated like lesser human beings. What I would really love is some fucking peace in that matter. But ragequitting like a certain someone else today? Lol, never.

kb: Look, you have a different opinion on things than me. That's fine. That's OK. Have you completely forgotten that it once used to be OK to have different opinions on things?

How comes that you are attacking me for having a different opinion, but I ain't attacking you for yours?

Don't you see the irony of me saying that there needs to be a place for "hateful speech" if you want to keep artistic freedom, and you say there doesn't have to be, while using exactly that "hateful speech"?

Same for skin color/race/gender: Isn't it ironic that those who get attacked on this subject rarely ever judge someone on skin color/race/gender, but quite often the first line of response from those who wrongly believe to be doing "something right and good" bring up this subject, including trying to invalidate someone else's opinion based on this?

I'll do one line of "hateful" speech and then put this to a rest, because we are friends and I respect you:

I do remember the kb that used to creep up on pretty much everything that had tits inside the scene for well over 20 years. I do remember the kb that just 2 years ago thought it was a valid communication strategy to throw a coke bottle at someone's face you are friends with for ages. Don't get me wrong. Both is in line with your personality that I've known for long, and accepted. Yes, I have often criticized you for your toxic behavior over the years, as you know, but in the end it was not up to me to define on what kind of person you are supposed to be. And, to get back to my unpopular opinion: I believe that people like you, who are very creative but also aggressive and sometimes toxic, deserve their place in the scene, always have, and always should.

But with this background, please understand that I can not accept you as a lecturer when it comes to "how to treat people nicely and not hurt feelings". You really are a false prophet on that subject.

Scamp, that coke bottle was thrown _at me_. You are now going to apologize.

kb_ <3 You got me as an alltime fan! <3 I love you and your gf. Ur so special.

Also: I understand that for two years now you are trying to change, to become a more inclusive, open-minded, less aggressive person who hurts his friends less. That's just great.

But when criticizing others, please keep in mind that this took you well over 20 years. Putting aside the fact that you have no right to decide on what kind of personality others in the scene should have, you can not expect everybody else now to instead change within months.

Also you need to avoid to fall into your old aggressive behavioral patterns when dealing with fellow sceners. It does not help if you have made a step forward within the last two years, and are now doing two steps back. Yes, you think you really are right this times about things. But guess what, 10 years ago you also thought you were right.

kb: Sorry, you are correct. The coke bottle was thrown at YOU, and back then I heavily criticized the OTHER person. I do apologize.

Still waiting for the apology.

That's a lot of "you" in that post.

Ah. Good.

Euh.. some sincere concerned posting here. Scamp, I get you're angry but this is going to a dark place and nobody will benefit from that.

I don't think you realize how your current posting is coming off on other people, and I'm sure some people will jump on me to tell me it's right and fair and should be more inclusive, but I don;t care for now. This is getting to a level where I legit worry for people I care about, so please.. let's all let this thread simmer for the day and not say things we might end up regretting.

Agreed.

But delete the "A middle-aged white man in 2021" keyboard macro, please. Permanently.

"Pick up the gun, Okkie."

I don't get why people who have controversial opinions cry and whine and say "why can't I have a different opinion?" when other people disagree with said opinions. It's not like anyone forbid someone to think a certain way.

I don't think the thread should be about kb_'s character either.