onScene 2021 - Easter Weekend - April 2-5 - Bingen am Rhein, Germany
category: parties [glöplog]
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In case you are referring to my message to DocD
All good. <3 Theres nothing to understand negative.
Am I right here on pouet.net? For a brief moment I felt like I was at BILD Zeitung.
daxx: BILD has not enough drama to compete with pouet
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havoc: Oh, integrating the onScene live audience feedback into the RO compo stream would be most easy - we'd simply provide you with a stream of it that you then can mix into the RO stream.
that's your idea of a live event experience? it's a bit of an improvement i guess... but like, from 50% to 55% maybe. (i'm trying to be polite.)
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Also, if some RO organizers prefer to produce their compos or other content from onScene instead of their living room, I'd also not see a problem with that.
well sure and that's cool for the orgas who would choose to do so but it would only marginally improve the experience for the stream's audience (if at all). if you want to do it right you have to get at least all orgas, commentators, competitors and some kind of crowd in the hall for a showdown and that just seems extremely unlikely given the rate at which most countries are vaccinating their citizens.
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If you look at it pragmatically instead of ideologically, that is.
haha :)
I think the only way to make this safe would be to have a quarantine period onsite before the event, once people arrive in the area. Especially considering the high rates of false negatives on the tests
Make it an open air event in a venue that allows social distancing but is sound proof, has a nice space for a large screen and in case of a weather emergency the ability to provide a roof.
I suggest renting the "Arena Auf-Schalke" in Gelsenkirchen. ;)
I suggest renting the "Arena Auf-Schalke" in Gelsenkirchen. ;)
Perhaps one sidenote on UC10 that's neither coming from its mainorga nor from someone who couldn't/wouldn't have been there: No, we did not behave perfectly. It needed half an hour until basically everyone agreed to hug it out and not wear masks apart from the dancefloor (I certainly made myself guilty there like everyone else). So yes, first and foremost we merely got lucky no one was infected, probably to a big part because of the fairly secluded lifestyle most of us have. An indoor-event will certainly require way more "policing".
But something curious happened: I've hardly seen anyone getting piss-drunk. None of the usual Easter-Friday-time-to-unwind excess, people were rather focused on taking it all in and not impairing their experience.
Not making an argument that "this will all work out fine", any attempt to organize a party will require a substantial amount of luck despite all measures, and one should seriously consider quarantining before and after. Just saying when the time comes, we may surprise ourselves.
Btw, parties and congresses were allowed here all year long up until November when the second wave spiked. Have been to a few, and after some time of adjustment, people actually wore their masks and kept distance, and (super) spreading events outside of offices and weddings became extremely rare, and clubs applied themselves in order to continue business.
Finally, everyone should have understood that this thing is still going to be around for another year or two, and must gauge for themselves under which conditions they wish to engage. I'd commend everyone who stays home for the following years as much as everyone who invests the work and money trying to create alternatives to that.
Just stay the eff away from the rest of society before and after for their sake.
But something curious happened: I've hardly seen anyone getting piss-drunk. None of the usual Easter-Friday-time-to-unwind excess, people were rather focused on taking it all in and not impairing their experience.
Not making an argument that "this will all work out fine", any attempt to organize a party will require a substantial amount of luck despite all measures, and one should seriously consider quarantining before and after. Just saying when the time comes, we may surprise ourselves.
Btw, parties and congresses were allowed here all year long up until November when the second wave spiked. Have been to a few, and after some time of adjustment, people actually wore their masks and kept distance, and (super) spreading events outside of offices and weddings became extremely rare, and clubs applied themselves in order to continue business.
Finally, everyone should have understood that this thing is still going to be around for another year or two, and must gauge for themselves under which conditions they wish to engage. I'd commend everyone who stays home for the following years as much as everyone who invests the work and money trying to create alternatives to that.
Just stay the eff away from the rest of society before and after for their sake.
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It needed half an hour until basically everyone agreed to hug it out and not wear masks apart
so much for the "security concept" then...
please forget everything i wrote before on this thread, RO is totally correct in not wanting to associate with a shitshow like that
yo platon42, i have been thinking about this:
and I think you are right. if that is a model from July 2020, we should consider the incidence numbers from back then, and the incidence numbers now. since they are higher now, we should multiply whatever the calculator says by that factor(so, definitely a number larger than 1.0 )
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the oldest referred publication is from July 2020. "best research available"? Talk about hybris.
and I think you are right. if that is a model from July 2020, we should consider the incidence numbers from back then, and the incidence numbers now. since they are higher now, we should multiply whatever the calculator says by that factor(so, definitely a number larger than 1.0 )
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so much for the "security concept" then...
Cut off nicely there. People wore masks while dancing or sitting together on tables, on the boats, etc. So nothing really you can blame on the organisation.
But yes, it was certainly an opportunity to ask the question how much mainorgas can actually influence the risk of infection if visitors don't apply themselves, and you will hardly be able to prohibit them from hugging in the parking lot, as was worded here before. If you don't wish to recognize that... well, good luck for you in May, I guess.
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So nothing really you can blame on the organisation.
Except that they're proposing to do the same thing again but on a bigger scale perhaps?
Except that they are acquiring rapid tests (let's face it, on a substantial loss for scamp) and build on the existing concept based on the experiences from last time, perhaps?
Are you planning on doing the same?
Are you planning on doing the same?
What's your argument? That it's totally OK to hug without masks with 250ppl if they have passed a rapid test?
Nope. I also can't see the former section of "hug and/or remove mask only if everyone in the group consents" that was still present during UC, but a rather strict mandate.
You will however have to face the fact that mishaps e.g. in hotels or on the way are likely going to happen, whether you are happy about it as the organiser or not. The question is how you respond to that and take responsibility to mitigate the risk (since you can't eliminate it). Except for not organising a party at all in 2021.
Again, out of curiosity: what's your plan to make Outline a thing? Just hope that we're all magically vaccinated by then?
You will however have to face the fact that mishaps e.g. in hotels or on the way are likely going to happen, whether you are happy about it as the organiser or not. The question is how you respond to that and take responsibility to mitigate the risk (since you can't eliminate it). Except for not organising a party at all in 2021.
Again, out of curiosity: what's your plan to make Outline a thing? Just hope that we're all magically vaccinated by then?
Not an easy task to organize safely an on-site demoparty this year.
I don't know if this is a good idea, but anyway thank you for trying.
Long live demoparties!
I don't know if this is a good idea, but anyway thank you for trying.
Long live demoparties!
Shana: Our plan for Outline is to follow the health recommendations from the local authorities. I'm not aware of any cases where they allowed "bubble strategies" outside of pro sports or media since the pandemic started so that's not an avenue that makes sense to explore for us.
No, the bubble strategies (if you're referring to quarantine mandates for participants) won't be feasible, agreed... or at least orgas won't be able to control it sufficiently without ankle tags.
The regulations by local health authorities usually only aim at tracing capabilities, separation from the general population and safety distance, hardly on individual protective measures apart from masks (if we're lucky enough to be in a situation that they can be reinstated by that time, and I sincerely wish you that). Anyway, they are by far less restrictive compared to what scamp wants to pull off just one month earlier.
Not trying to sway a mind here to go or not to go, just kinda hoping for organizers to rather put their minds towards solutions if they so want, instead of bickering amongst each other.
The regulations by local health authorities usually only aim at tracing capabilities, separation from the general population and safety distance, hardly on individual protective measures apart from masks (if we're lucky enough to be in a situation that they can be reinstated by that time, and I sincerely wish you that). Anyway, they are by far less restrictive compared to what scamp wants to pull off just one month earlier.
Not trying to sway a mind here to go or not to go, just kinda hoping for organizers to rather put their minds towards solutions if they so want, instead of bickering amongst each other.
Regulations from local health authorities in Ommen have not allowed for events with over 30 adults present at locations such as ours since the pandemic started. Facemasks would be mandatory in any case. Doing last summer's UC as you described it at our location could have netted me and the owner of the partyplace thousands of euros in fines and closure of the premises. So any such scheme is not really an option in Holland I'm afraid.
havoc:
UC was fully legal, and did outmatch all local health regulations *by far*.
And the same will be the case with onScene. It will only take place if it's legal and complies to all local health regulations by far, and our security concept will outmatch those regulations *by far*.
I'd serve another reminder that with today's situation it would be irresponsible to do the party. We are simply hoping that the situation in April is closer to last year's July situation. If it isn't, then onScene would happen.
Anyway: If find your level of criticism combined with the fact that you pretty much are going to do the same thing 4 weeks later, but appear to not have a security concept yet that goes further than "what local health authorities say" a bit hypocritical. What am I a missing here?
Some of the standards people are asking for are unrealistic and unmeetable. But "what local health authorities say" on the other hand is far too low for me. I don't think the German nor Dutch authorities have shown much competence in this regard yet.
UC was fully legal, and did outmatch all local health regulations *by far*.
And the same will be the case with onScene. It will only take place if it's legal and complies to all local health regulations by far, and our security concept will outmatch those regulations *by far*.
I'd serve another reminder that with today's situation it would be irresponsible to do the party. We are simply hoping that the situation in April is closer to last year's July situation. If it isn't, then onScene would happen.
Anyway: If find your level of criticism combined with the fact that you pretty much are going to do the same thing 4 weeks later, but appear to not have a security concept yet that goes further than "what local health authorities say" a bit hypocritical. What am I a missing here?
Some of the standards people are asking for are unrealistic and unmeetable. But "what local health authorities say" on the other hand is far too low for me. I don't think the German nor Dutch authorities have shown much competence in this regard yet.
would not happen*
Looking at the calendar again... Outline is 6-7 (not 4) weeks later than onScene, so the incidence rates could be far lower by then, comparing to 2020's curves. So yes, we might end up with onScene being not legal, but Outline being OK. And I'd be happy for Outline and the scene if that would be the case.
However, complying with local health authorities' rules of course still is not the level of security sceners are expecting, clearly, and not the level onScene is aiming for. We must and can be better than that.
However, complying with local health authorities' rules of course still is not the level of security sceners are expecting, clearly, and not the level onScene is aiming for. We must and can be better than that.
I think you're being overly optimistic about what will be allowed in 4-5-6 months from now at our already booked location. We simply wouldn't run a physical event when faced with the kind of restrictions you're preparing for. I could say more about this topic but I'm not clairvoyant so it would all be depressing bullshit anyway.
To be honest, the writing was on the wall for 2021 when Revision orgas announced that they'd be an online only event for the 2nd year in a row.
Whilst I do wish Scamp and the orgas of Onscene well, whether their event goes ahead or not, I think people are very unsure of travelling at the moment. Certainly from the UK there are serious difficulties for flights; whilst my wife and I are more used to driving to Revision, Outline and Evoke, compared to other sceners who would usually fly over, currently we would need to prove a negative test before leaving the UK, no matter which method of travel we chose to use.
Whilst the ban on non-essential travel from the UK continues, this will also be another pain for UK sceners.
It may well be for the best that until things with the pandemic calm down a lot compared to where things are right now that future demoparties should be online until further notice. I know we're all missing the physical events like crazy but until things ease substantially it'll be a no-no, unfortunately.
Just my two penne'th worth .....
Whilst I do wish Scamp and the orgas of Onscene well, whether their event goes ahead or not, I think people are very unsure of travelling at the moment. Certainly from the UK there are serious difficulties for flights; whilst my wife and I are more used to driving to Revision, Outline and Evoke, compared to other sceners who would usually fly over, currently we would need to prove a negative test before leaving the UK, no matter which method of travel we chose to use.
Whilst the ban on non-essential travel from the UK continues, this will also be another pain for UK sceners.
It may well be for the best that until things with the pandemic calm down a lot compared to where things are right now that future demoparties should be online until further notice. I know we're all missing the physical events like crazy but until things ease substantially it'll be a no-no, unfortunately.
Just my two penne'th worth .....
yo scamp, apparently you can't even protect the onscene website against old biz-textfragments from the past, how are you going to protect the visitors? :)
joking aside, seriously clean that up before you get business inquiries :P
Speaking about UC: The only situation during the party weekend where I felt unsafe infection-wise were the last 30 minutes in the local subway on my trip home because our "clever" and "caring" government decided it was a great idea to reopen shops and restaurants at the same time they went back from spacious extended length trains to the regular overcrowded shortened ones.
Also, everyone is grown up enough to decide on its own whether to join the mosh pit is an acceptable risk or prefer physical distancing instead - no one will chase and snort on you in the latter case.
Also, everyone is grown up enough to decide on its own whether to join the mosh pit is an acceptable risk or prefer physical distancing instead - no one will chase and snort on you in the latter case.
