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it seems that not a long time ago it was sufficient to announce dates of your party and write up rules to competitions and authors did everything else themselves, ie read the website, submit entries in time, buy tickets or watch steam. but competitions from parties this year made me wonder, did situation change? are compo organisers now required to take more active role and go door to door to past authors nagging them to take part?

what is the current state of affairs in regards to attracting authors to participate in competitions? what is generally accepted as norm? what does it take to motivate author to partake in competition today?

current and past authors and competition orgas are invited to take part in this discussion.

well in 90s taking part in compos meant that you would be yelled at ("LAAMEEER!!!") and presented with naked asses of audience and other competitors (and all of them were hairy and male and probably smelly).
Now? I guess some serious prizes and maybe media coverage would be attractive?

Compo rules were changed a year ago. What kind of motivation can we talk about if the AON demo won first place in ZX 640K demo compo ?

1) There are far less people making demos now, there are very few new people taking it up per year.
2) However, there are as many parties as in the last few years so the amount that is produced is spread thinly across that. I'm amazed how many parties have happened this summer alone.
3) You can get the same amount of engagement releasing demos outside competitions, and some platforms (like the c64) release as much outside parties as inside. It's not really a huge draw to do it when it's going to be the same 60 people either there or here for some people.
4) Parties are still arranged around the same 'holiday' times of the year, with a rapidly aging populace of sceners they have other responsibilities during those times.
5) Platforms with reach outside the scene (like Pico-8) get more engagement elsewhere than doing another windows demo. You can demoscene outside the scene.

well, in Portugal we certainly need to be more aware of that, for this year's inércia we're trying to make sure people have enough time at the party place to do something, even if it's a fast entry for the one scene compo. giving workshops on how to do stuff earlier on should help motivate random new people to try to do something. any bigger entries are also very welcome on the combined intro/demo compo but i'm expecting we'll only have a couple of those, knowing how lazy/innactive the scene in portugal is.

it's a fact that there has been slowly less parties and entries per year, it's not a recent happening (i.e. from this year).

i still think there are too many parties around and that that drains some of the motivation to do new prods from people who participate on a global scale. maybe motivation is not the right word to describe it, what i mean is that there is a finite of free time you have to dedicate to your hobby, if you attend more then 2 or 3 parties a year, you'll be struggling to find the time to do a production you'll be proud of for all of them. while a few sceners perfected the art of doing quick hacks on a couple of days, most of the sceners have not imho and just end up not doing any productions when lacking the time to do something interesting enough.

but i think all of this becomes self-regulated, people also don't have much time to organize parties, and most sceners operate locally (going only to a local party and then maybe a big party / close by party abroad).

also worth mentioning was the trend in a few finnish parties that you must have a compo entry to attend the event, which from what i heard was a success. a few more crappy entries then usual, that's true, but a compo with 7 shitty entries instead of 2 still makes for a more funny party experience.

People are getting older and have more responsibilities. I have three good unused demo tracks, two unfinished productions, more ideas than I could ever bring to life and zero time to work on any of that due to family, work and other commitments. Some day... but not yet.

thank you all for your input, it is true that core of this subculture is not getting younger and collects more responsibilities with years, so perhaps helping possible participants by doing some time management for them is not such a bad idea, but wouldn't some people be put off by more frequent contact by orgas?

"Hello, this is your personal demo instructor from party $partyname. I think we progressed rather well last time. Doesn't it feel good? Here's today's motivational: "Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strength!". I also recommend eating more broccoli this week as the anti-oxidants are good for your brain and body. I hope this is very helpful when you seek a few minutes from your stressful life to work on your awesome entries for our demoparty! You can do it! $partydemoinstructorname"

Signed: The Ministry Of Demomaking

wow is that from new revision app

Well from my experience as a partyorga and visitor I can say that getting people to attend your party and getting people to make something with real quality and work involved for your compos are two different pair of shoes.

Getting visitors has mostly to do with the geographical location (is it easy to reach?), the actual location (does it seem like a fun place to hang out?), the overall costs (is it affordable for the not-so-wealthy people?) and of course the timing (does it clash with other parties/vacation dates?).
If a certain number of sceners decide that the party is worth a shot they will make other people join in as well --> fun party and socializing assured.

Getting good prods on the other hand depends on different factors: How good was the overall compo quality the last time around? Who is attending and what level of quality can be expected by them? What kind of prizes are there and do people really want them or are they just more or less of symbolic nature?

I noticed that many sub-scenes (mostly platform or nationality based) seem to make out that one party per year where they show their A-game and focus most of their free time on. So if your party doesnt happen to be one of those you might want to lower your expectations, especially if one of those *big* parties is close datewise.
I guess if you put in a clear focus, talk to sceners who are likely to come by before to make sure they have something to show and are able to reward them properly (either with outreach/fame or heavy prizes) it is possible to convince a sub-scene to compete at your party. Special limitations or themed compos may also help there (if the idea is good and sceners find it to be an interesting challenge).

However, what I can say for us and probably many other party organizers is that it is not just about compo quality, in fact many small to mid-scale parties are more about socializing and having a good time with old and new friends. The compos are a nice thing to have and they are also a chance for your first, fast or experimental prod to shine but its not really about that. And if a group (or single scener) brings a really good production to the table it is of course wholeheartedly welcome but seen more as a thank you for the people who make the party (which does include the visitors) than as an attempt of winning the compo for fame and prizes.

I think in the end there are many reasons and motivators for sceners to release at certain parties and not at others and there is only so much you can do about it. When we had our first Nordlicht 2012 in a shady garden-shed and without prior experience I was blown away by the amount of support we got throughout the scene, yet most of the entries of those early days have been buried by the sands of time and forgotten.

Its still worth it, it always is.

the new revision app should get an achievements feature... 'worked 2 evenings on a row on my demo', 'drank 12 beers and still typing C++', 'avoided pouet for 5 hours', 'did daily duties as personal demo instructor', 'didnt ask dfox about whose body is under the revision fridge', etc!

How about more lavish cash prizes and bigger shinier trophies?

wait! despite earning money like water with our boring computer jobs, we're still in the demoscene for the bling?!?!?!?

I don't know if party organizers can do that much to get compo entries, aside from maybe making a few themselves.

The reason why I make entries is, making them and participating in a compo is fun. The so-called quality or success don't matter that much. It's of course a nice bonus if an entry does well in a compo. Party organizers just have to allow remote entries, because I can't make it to more than a couple of parties a year.

It's unrealistic to demand the mythical "someone" to not only make demos, but make good demos. Quality will come in due time, if you first get quantity, and if the genre and compo category is established in the scene. It takes years.

The thing that kills the numbers is overly high ambition levels of what's acceptable and legitimate. If you set out a goal that you have to win or make something incredibly special, it stops being fun. If participating in itself isn't fun, you don't get the crap entries, and if you don't get crap entries, you don't get mediocre ones, let alone good ones. And it takes years. Even if there is a very good demo, it doesn't feel so good, if that's the only entry in the compo. Add some crappy entries and a couple of mediocre ones, then the good entry feels like a proper thing, and it raises the compo as a whole to a higher level.

congrats, Maali is a winner! xD

Speaking from my personal experience, I do wonder more and more often whether the time and effort I've been sinking into my "big" releases was really worth it. In terms of learning and self improvement, definitely. But making anything demoscene specific means you'll get a highly rewarding experience at a party and have some nice talks about it, probably gaining a few fans who follow your work as well, but ultimately you'll reach a few 1000 people (including youtube and pouet), and then that's it.
I never really minded that, because most of the time my motivation was intrinsic and I cared about the gratification of making something in the first place and to be able to show it to some hopefully interested people at all. With my first prods, "winning" and the competition played a role too. I wanted to improve up to the point where I am accepted within the ranks of the "big players", scene competitions were a way to measure this, and moving up in that small world actually meant something. It doesn't anymore.

Nowadays, I gain most fun and kick out of making ridiculous partyprods and having them shown on the big screen while having a few good laughs with the group mates. It's also less straining than crunching for weeks to get something really ambitious done (and as a bonus you get to enjoy some hateful and ignorant rambling on pouet).

Since Airplane! I feel like I don't have much motivation left for making demos. No interest in getting back into video/anim as well (those compos never really took off anyway).

Maybe I'll get back into games at some point. It's still comparably easy to compete with the average game quality that can be found at demopartys (check out the recent assembly game compo lol), but imho the biggest bonus is that a game can be presented to a larger audience. If it got potential, you can even extend it, polish it up, and sell it.



I tend to agree, and imho a good compofiller jokeprod can still be very entertaining :)

Something I do not get is why so many entries, which in principle have their tech and assets ready, do not use their potential. Imagine several paragraphs of rambling about direction and how-to-cinematography here. With just a little more effort, many releases could step up their game massively just by presenting their contents in a different way. There are books about these topics just as there are books about CGI. The days when it was enough to show some pulsing 3d object with a nice shader, or having a 3d engine at all, are long gone.

Unfortunately, it's a vicious circle: People want to show their prods at parties where people see them, so people go to those parties to see prods. It's hard to get people to post their A-prods unless you're already in that kind of league. Of course, just having lots of visitors will help, since people are more likely to hand in things to parties they go to (duh).

There are plenty of wrong things you can do that will scare away prods, though. In particular, if you consistently mess up the showing of people's entries (especially if you don't seem to care, as opposed to honest mistakes), that's probably a pretty clear barrier. People want their work treated with respect, or they'll go somewhere else.

people who release may have very differing motives. some people just churn something out in their free time, releasing it at the next party after it's done. some groups/people love the buzz of partycoding and submitting an unfinished-but-sorta-decent demo 1 hour after deadline. some people go full focus mode and work on something for weeks or even months for a party they hold dear and want to blow the audience away with a rockstar move. hard to opt for a global approach but what was said above numerous times is true - the more people coming to your party & the bigger exposure you have, the more releases you will end up with.

about being an adult and having less free time: i think it is flipping back to the older norms. oldschoolers are being attracted again to attend parties and create stuff. they settled in a steady job already with inherently more flexibility (40yr olds with lots of experience enjoy less stress than 24yr old juniors in a competitive rat-race), their kids have grown up, financial stability more-or-less kicked in, so there is a great returnal force from oldschoolers, at least that's what i see.

I think sceners who really love creating demos will always do so, even when they reach old age.

Nice topic.
I've gained some experience over the past 3 years:



and yes, it depends on the organizers too, on which party I like to submit an entry or not.

In the year 2018 I said i will support every party with an entry which has tiny intro compo and then I've released 8 PC256b intros.
This year I wouldn't have had less opportunities to submit a 256PC intro
(Demobit, DiHalt, @party, Revision, ChaosConstruction, Xenium, Function, Deadline), but I chose other parties.

In my opinion, why not to like submit an entry for a party
(or just bringing the quality release to somewhere else...)

- STRANGE VOTING RESULTS, the order is not consistent with quality of prods
because of name voting or the low number of voters or strong lobbying for local entries (like CC)

- NOT SEPARATING COMPOS, competing too mixed entries (like Nordlicht)
(nice counterexample was Riverwash)

- BUGGY COMPOS, showing your entry on wrong speed or without sound (like @party)
after a wrong presented entry, a party has a 2nd chance at max (hello Deadline!)

If you make a very good prod, then what you want is attention and feedback.

- SMALL PARTY -> small attention, small feedback
- LOW RANKED PROD -> low attention, low feedback

In my opinion, why prefer a party than other

- Shiny trophy is matter
Originaly I would have released hypervibes intro at QBparty and weaksignal at Demobit. But that trophy convinced me to swap these entries.

- Tough competition is also matter, it's important who are the other competitors
the biggest race in the category with the major players is a must attend (like Function)

Smaller demoparties simply cannot have the same diversity of competitions or platform separation such as the big parties due to lack of entry submissions. Trophy quality and uniqueness will largely depend on whether or not funding allows for them to be created.

I dare say visitors of smaller parties will predominantly attend for the family-like atmosphere and socializing aspects and thus happily overlook some of the drawbacks not found at larger parties, which however in turn have their very own set of benefits and drawbacks.

gotta say, apart from the odd exception of parties with gigantic near-1000 EUR hardware prizes or nicely designed artisan trophies, most people don't give a damn about prizes at all it's all for the game & fame. at least that's what i see.

TomCatAbaddon: Wow! You are very active!

the basic motivation to compete at a demo party is a) because it's a cool party and you're going anyway - and it's always nice to get involved and participate; and b) because the competition is good, i.e. you think there's going to be a good challenge.

a) at least gets you partycoding, but you need b) to get you big productions. the reason that the PC compos at revision and assembly tend to be the big ones the majority of years is because thats where you expect competition - in fact you enter there to seek it - and have to bring your A game.
it's particularly great at revision to enter a big compo and experience it front of most of the scene.
prizes, trophies and everything else is basically irrelevant.