RIP Nectarine... AGAIN!
category: general [glöplog]
All that is written below this is sensible from now on :optimism:
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11 pages of open mudslinging, misplaced entitlement, bitterness and vitriol, yeah sure, from now on the discussion is likely to become civilized indeed...
+1
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11 pages of open mudslinging, misplaced entitlement, bitterness and vitriol, yeah sure, from now on the discussion is likely to become civilized indeed...
As you saw he could not stand even Starchaser's (2nd level admin) most honest and polite criticism. And that seemed to be the message that was decisive for him (no wonder, as the writer was his closest co-worker on the site).
He could have given Nectarine easily away earlier had that been acceptable outcome for him. But his stubborn stance was not to accept that. He did not hint at any phase that he could accept that. And his behavior here now reflects his behavior in previous conflict situations. Those who have not seen that are likely to be too optimistic.
So starting from these premises on this arena, reaching the sound outcome had probably been next to impossible.
see? :(
Keops back as moderator to new/old/whatever -necta there will be? Help is needed.
Serpent: I had fun doing it 10 years ago, I don't have the time anymore though :)
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Hearing this i see no point in going forward with anything.
I'll anonymize the db (as in clear all email addresses, passwords, private user data, pm's, user profiles, forums and song comments) and make it public.
For obvious reasons (copyrighted material given with permission to only stream to nectarine) i can't make the song repo available online for download.
The now requestless/random stream will be available nontheless.
Where you go from here is up to you.
Whoa, dude! I wasn't trying to instigate or steer you off your course, and I definitely don't want to see the site nuked and the userbase fractured.
Admittedly my reaction was somewhat confrontational. In calmer terms, my concerns were more like, "AFTER you get the site working and all this shit taken care of, THEN can we talk about community stuff?" Because yes, there ARE real concerns... but if they need to take a backseat to getting code written or whatever, then I think most of us (incl. me) can accept that. I just wanted an assurance that this conversation will happen at SOME point.
In the end, I'm certain you have the dedication to admin Nectarine to the best of your ability - running it for years, probably at a financial loss, and putting up with criticism, is proof enough of that. I suppose I thought that your comments on this thread were an opening to voice my concerns and thoughts at you. But maybe now is not the time, and I should have shown more tact.
re: meeting you at Riverwash - gotta decline, and unfortunately as I am in the U.S. I couldn't even make it to exchange beers instead of fists.
:(
something is not right here
something is not right here
at this point putting up the old necta again seems like a barrel of powder which will eventually explode rather sooner than later.
ive said it before on irc: rebuild the thing and dont try too hard to save metadata like comments or song ratings - be happy if the song-library itself can be re-used and doesnt have to be rebuild.
as for the site itself: apparently its already open source so there shouldnt be much of a problem?
its always sad to see something go which has been around for so long but keep in mind every fresh start is also a chance to change things for the better.
ive said it before on irc: rebuild the thing and dont try too hard to save metadata like comments or song ratings - be happy if the song-library itself can be re-used and doesnt have to be rebuild.
as for the site itself: apparently its already open source so there shouldnt be much of a problem?
its always sad to see something go which has been around for so long but keep in mind every fresh start is also a chance to change things for the better.
In case you missed it (like I did) the Nectarine stream is up. You can listen to the following links (at least known to me):
https://nectarine.from-de.com/necta192
http://privat.is-by.us:8000/necta192.mp3
:)
https://nectarine.from-de.com/necta192
http://privat.is-by.us:8000/necta192.mp3
:)
So, we have a data hostage situation going on. Except the currency here is not money but "appreciation".
Call ninewunwun, they'll send a SWAT team
Quick before my profile is anonymized away and I'll have to make 3500 votes again.
Quick before my profile is anonymized away and I'll have to make 3500 votes again.
Well, I didn't want to get into this infected debate but I felt I had to put my opinion in, since this site (and the users) has personally meant/means a lot to me.
Only being a somewhat recent user of "only" five years on Nectarine, I've during that time found so many new musical gems on various platform I would never have listened to, if it wasn't for this lovely site. On top of that, the (oh-so-famous) one-liner has been really great when having an urge to talk about pretty much anything. I'm not sure if that was one of the problems though, but the ceiling on the one-liner was usually pretty high. :)
I really hope this ordeal can be sorted out in such a way we don't lose the hard work from everyone contributing to the site over the years (be it uploads, votes or whatever).
That being said, I understand if it has been an a rough task for Arab to run the site with so many (sometimes very vocal) opinions about things like the voting system etc.
To conclude I'm really still hoping for a good solution to all this, for both the (previous) users and administrator(s).
Only being a somewhat recent user of "only" five years on Nectarine, I've during that time found so many new musical gems on various platform I would never have listened to, if it wasn't for this lovely site. On top of that, the (oh-so-famous) one-liner has been really great when having an urge to talk about pretty much anything. I'm not sure if that was one of the problems though, but the ceiling on the one-liner was usually pretty high. :)
I really hope this ordeal can be sorted out in such a way we don't lose the hard work from everyone contributing to the site over the years (be it uploads, votes or whatever).
That being said, I understand if it has been an a rough task for Arab to run the site with so many (sometimes very vocal) opinions about things like the voting system etc.
To conclude I'm really still hoping for a good solution to all this, for both the (previous) users and administrator(s).
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Quote:In my interactions with others on the site, users & admins alike, I've encountered a kind of fear on their part regarding their ability to freely approach you with feedback and be heard. I've gotten the sense that some felt that they were walking on eggshells and had to tip-toe, worried they could lose privileges, be sidelined, etc.
I don't know where this is coming from, as on the (obviously) hidden mod/admin forum nobody ever who had spoken their voice got banned or punished or had their mod/admin privileges revoked as a result.
Quote:I also occasionally took issue with certain decisions or decrees made about the site but felt I couldn't really say what I really thought, because I feared you would have an angry response or disable my account.
This especially coming from you Starchaser is even more surprising as you had basically unrestricted access to all the site resources and voiced your concerns on slack where we had some conversations.
Hearing this i see no point in going forward with anything.
I'll anonymize the db (as in clear all email addresses, passwords, private user data, pm's, user profiles, forums and song comments) and make it public.
For obvious reasons (copyrighted material given with permission to only stream to nectarine) i can't make the song repo available online for download.
The now requestless/random stream will be available nontheless.
Where you go from here is up to you.
I have become Brutus, but this does not make arab Caesar. We have virtually "hung" a man, and who was not deserving. Some may consider it a hoisting on his own petard, but I do not. None of this makes me proud to have been involved. This thread is terrible, and to anyone who celebrates, if this seems like a victory to you it is very pyrrhic.
Nectarine was a community. The demoscene is a community. This does not mean we all think the same, but if we do not at least work together toward a common betterment of our own, then what are we? It is human to do so, but many are quick to remember the bad more easily than the good. It seems I am no better, and it is unfortunate we do not remember more of the good.
We could have improved many things, but for an incarnation of a site that survived almost ten years (2008-2018), we were sure quick to assume there was a singular cause that could be resolved in a week. Humans are are not masters of time and we cannot go back to do things differently. I will not recant my words for a false hope to better the situation. I did not lie about how I felt. However I do sincerely wish I had expressed myself more at the appropriate times and places so I could be worthy of the trust bestowed on me. Many aired their grievances as they desired and felt if people saw the "rightness" things might resolve themselves. I too was fallible in that regard, but as this thread has evidenced it is a very poor way to deal.
The scene always moves on, but this does not absolve me of my involvement. I can only apologize to you all and hope we all take a lesson to work together for each other so we do not repeat ourselves so easily. I have far to go to ensure I am the better person people believed me to be.
Apparently scene drama can turn into legitimate Shakespearean drama? Can I "play" too?
STARCHASER: A victory! If so, alas, 'tis pyrrhic,
We've lost the Nectabase and all the lyrics,
The user-names, the favourites--
STINSEN: Wait! hold!
To say the user-names are lost is bold:
The names, mayhap, are gone; the people, never,
And Nectarine, I trow, shall last forever.
STARCHASER: Impossible, vile knave! Without our Arab--
OLDCHAP: A traitor! aye, a harsh Egyptian scarab!
It matters not who paid the virtual rent:
Community's not measured cent by cent,
And (whether in or out of drunken fug)
No single man should pull that single plug.
RAPTURE: Hail! WHATTA! Hark! I hear a step draw nearer.
MIRRORBIRD: I wish the words in raps by Virt were clearer;
I'm trying to transcribe that M.C. Nachbar--
ARAB: I hate you all, you bunch of jealous fachbars.
STARCHASER: A victory! If so, alas, 'tis pyrrhic,
We've lost the Nectabase and all the lyrics,
The user-names, the favourites--
STINSEN: Wait! hold!
To say the user-names are lost is bold:
The names, mayhap, are gone; the people, never,
And Nectarine, I trow, shall last forever.
STARCHASER: Impossible, vile knave! Without our Arab--
OLDCHAP: A traitor! aye, a harsh Egyptian scarab!
It matters not who paid the virtual rent:
Community's not measured cent by cent,
And (whether in or out of drunken fug)
No single man should pull that single plug.
RAPTURE: Hail! WHATTA! Hark! I hear a step draw nearer.
MIRRORBIRD: I wish the words in raps by Virt were clearer;
I'm trying to transcribe that M.C. Nachbar--
ARAB: I hate you all, you bunch of jealous fachbars.
:bravo:
LOL mbird you silly bird! ^_^ :D But it fits like a glove to the hand in your stove... eh, you can do it better, Mr. Native speaker ;D But what is a fachbar I wonder ;D
If all we get from the site shutdown is this sonnet
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maybe it was still worth it
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maybe it was still worth it
Nectarine Unplugged: your favourite scene tunes played on acoustic guitar.
I've still got all the jingles in my head, I can shout them in between your guitar tunes. doo-DOO-doo-DOO. nectar-EEN (een (een)), one hundred, wo-wo-wo-wo-hundred percent, demoscene radio. god it's sad, I need to get out more.
CONFIRMASSE. let's blackmail Pouet that this thread will become the new oneliner until things are sorted out. definitely won't get banned. what do you think Rapture?
In the mean time I am listening to this on loop until I finally crack and kill someone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQXas5UStw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQXas5UStw
Go away Saturday, come back Wednesday, site down... but at least hints of a solution coming sooner or later. Next Wednesday and all goes nuclear? That recent European heat wave was killer. :(
Scenepoetry has never been better.