RIP Nectarine... AGAIN!
category: general [glöplog]
MrsBeanbag:
"This was someone else's private endeavor." Are you kidding me? This entire project was pioneered by all the people at the old Nectarine.
And how many admins have contributed to the current site over the years? I uploaded only about 200 songs (others have uploaded thousands) and just those 200 took me many, many hours.
So if a CEO decides to shut down a company and fire all the employees, would he be able to say, "Hey it's not yours, I don't owe you an explanation. Be grateful for the time you had here"..... Come on man...
"This was someone else's private endeavor." Are you kidding me? This entire project was pioneered by all the people at the old Nectarine.
And how many admins have contributed to the current site over the years? I uploaded only about 200 songs (others have uploaded thousands) and just those 200 took me many, many hours.
So if a CEO decides to shut down a company and fire all the employees, would he be able to say, "Hey it's not yours, I don't owe you an explanation. Be grateful for the time you had here"..... Come on man...
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NEVERTHELESS, people who hurt others are often themselves damaged, and we do not consider it an excuse for unacceptable behavior!
Ffs, it's a website, not domestic abuse. If you spent to much time there blame yourself.
oh come on he's only taken it offline, for one thing, i'm sure he hasn't literally set fire to the hard drive
anyway even if he has.. it never claimed to be some kind of historical archive. a lot of my stuff was on there too. (i've still got my own copies, obviously.)
as for him "hurting others" i mean come on, get a sense of perspective. he's shut down his own website cos there was too much frickin' drama on it and now look how you act. if you want to make sure it never comes back you're going the right way about it.
anyway even if he has.. it never claimed to be some kind of historical archive. a lot of my stuff was on there too. (i've still got my own copies, obviously.)
as for him "hurting others" i mean come on, get a sense of perspective. he's shut down his own website cos there was too much frickin' drama on it and now look how you act. if you want to make sure it never comes back you're going the right way about it.
Nectarine is not a private endeavour, it has always been a community-based website which lives from the participation of many people. Claiming ownership over it like that and shutting it down with a childish comment is absolutely disrespectful and a horrible way to treat the legacy of this page. It was created by others with their heartblood and enthusiasm and dwelled due to that.
If current admin lost interest in it he should have just asked for someone else to take over the page and not with a lot of drama shut it down like that, very ignorant.
If current admin lost interest in it he should have just asked for someone else to take over the page and not with a lot of drama shut it down like that, very ignorant.
Well, taking down a site (which was also a community by the way) just because of a dispute isn't the most preferable way to solve issues now, is it? Can you two (arab, C-Jeff) set aside or resolve any issues so that we can have a site we love back please?
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So if a CEO decides to shut down a company and fire all the employees, would he be able to say, "Hey it's not yours, I don't owe you an explanation. Be grateful for the time you had here"..... Come on man...
oh my goodness.. but none of us are employees are we. we're not even paying customers. this analogy is completely void.
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CyborgJeff and C-Jeff are two entirely different people. C-Jeff was not involved with this.Well, taking down a site (which was also a community by the way) just because of a dispute isn't the most preferable way to solve issues now, is it? Can you two (arab, C-Jeff) set aside or resolve any issues so that we can have a site we love back please?
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It's a Jim Jones-like act
Oh my fucking God, did you just compare the temporary closure of a WEBSITE to religious mass suicide?
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CyborgJeff and C-Jeff are two entirely different people. C-Jeff was not involved with this.
Sorry, meant CyborgJeff... These are sad news though... Can't this be resolved with at least the site up?
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So if a CEO decides to shut down a company and fire all the employees, would he be able to say, "Hey it's not yours, I don't owe you an explanation. Be grateful for the time you had here"..
Yes.
El Topo/MrsBeanbag/Gargaj:
Of course I know that it's not domestic abuse, religious mass suicide, or the firing of employees. IT IS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING.
Those examples are what we call "analogies."
Obviously this is not as serious as ANY of those examples, nevertheless it is an act of destruction of what one has built. That clearly resonates with a self-destructive power trip. This is all about a power trip.
MrsBeanbag "if you want to make sure it never comes back you're going the right way about it."
Ah, so you're advocating that we kiss ass and pretend to be nice even when we're resentful about this behavior, just so the powerful person will produce the outcome that we want? LOL, what you're describing is exactly how a domestically-abusive relationship operates.
Sorry, not going to be dishonest and stroke someone's ego just so they'll be semi-reasonable.
Of course I know that it's not domestic abuse, religious mass suicide, or the firing of employees. IT IS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING.
Those examples are what we call "analogies."
Obviously this is not as serious as ANY of those examples, nevertheless it is an act of destruction of what one has built. That clearly resonates with a self-destructive power trip. This is all about a power trip.
MrsBeanbag "if you want to make sure it never comes back you're going the right way about it."
Ah, so you're advocating that we kiss ass and pretend to be nice even when we're resentful about this behavior, just so the powerful person will produce the outcome that we want? LOL, what you're describing is exactly how a domestically-abusive relationship operates.
Sorry, not going to be dishonest and stroke someone's ego just so they'll be semi-reasonable.
Okkie:
Yes, but would it be right? Would that be the respectful, considerate way of dealing with the company's loyal members? Of course not.
That was the point.
Yes, but would it be right? Would that be the respectful, considerate way of dealing with the company's loyal members? Of course not.
That was the point.
No, but that doesn’t matter.
Also, as said before, you weren’t employees, so the analogy is flawed anyway.
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Ah, so you're advocating that we kiss ass and pretend to be nice
No. Don't pretend. Be nice. Being nice (and not now, but earlier) would've avoided this.
If someone who runs a site has the perception that the entire site has become worthless and that there's no longer a community to serve by keeping the site online, that's not on the creator.
Don't act like the creator hasn't failed the community. The community failed the creator.
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healthy people don't attack and destroy something dear to many others.
Is "the attack" another analogy here? If not, isn't this word a bit too strong, don't you think?
I'm sorry to see the end of the Nectarine but I'm even more sad seeing some of the comments lacking the empathy.
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Well, taking down a site (which was also a community by the way) just because of a dispute isn't the most preferable way to solve issues now, is it? Can you two (arab, Cyborg Jeff) set aside or resolve any issues so that we can have a site we love back please?
The dispute was clearly a minor one and apparently not so important for the closure. Arab had given some signs about losing his motivation earlier and the dispute was just an opportunity (an excuse?) to make the final move.
Gargaj:
I've always been nice. I've always been grateful for Nectarine, happy to contribute, and never unduly critical. But don't expect me to just take in stride the removal of Nectarine. It got destroyed once before by a hacker--this time it's by the custodian himself who is supposed to act as a caretaker. Anger is a natural and called-for reaction to something like this.
Btw, I've exchanged maybe 3 or 4 messages with Arab in total, which were all extremely cordial. So you'll need to be a little more clear about who was so "mean" that Arab was simply compelled to take down this site.
Arab mentioned that he spent a lot of his own money keeping Nectarine running. I'm sure that that's true, and I have always been grateful for the efforts of everyone who've kept it alive--even if he did tend to dominate things and "rule" Nectarine as a sole individual.
How exactly? Do you have some examples of this?
vv8:
No, in this case it's literal. If someone burned down your community meeting center / physical cultural archive, that would be an attack, no? And this is exactly the equivalent of that in the virtual world.
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Be nice. Being nice (and not now, but earlier) would've avoided this.
I've always been nice. I've always been grateful for Nectarine, happy to contribute, and never unduly critical. But don't expect me to just take in stride the removal of Nectarine. It got destroyed once before by a hacker--this time it's by the custodian himself who is supposed to act as a caretaker. Anger is a natural and called-for reaction to something like this.
Btw, I've exchanged maybe 3 or 4 messages with Arab in total, which were all extremely cordial. So you'll need to be a little more clear about who was so "mean" that Arab was simply compelled to take down this site.
Arab mentioned that he spent a lot of his own money keeping Nectarine running. I'm sure that that's true, and I have always been grateful for the efforts of everyone who've kept it alive--even if he did tend to dominate things and "rule" Nectarine as a sole individual.
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Don't act like the creator hasn't failed the community. The community failed the creator.
How exactly? Do you have some examples of this?
vv8:
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Is "the attack" another analogy here?
No, in this case it's literal. If someone burned down your community meeting center / physical cultural archive, that would be an attack, no? And this is exactly the equivalent of that in the virtual world.
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If someone who runs a site has the perception that the entire site has become worthless and that there's no longer a community to serve by keeping the site online, that's not on the creator.
Don't act like the creator hasn't failed the community. The community failed the creator.
I have absolutely no idea of the drama going-on (I don't go on Nectarine on a daily basis).
I just like to listen Nectarine from time to time, and often stumble upon it when I google some specific tracks/artists.
And the demoscene communities are hard to handle.
So of course, big respects & empathy to arab.
And of course, the community probably have its wrongs.
That said, the way I see things right now:
- scenemusic.net has shut down suddenly, and permanently (at least that what the message said)
- the message is quite childish
- this has been done by the will of a sole person (literally the definition of dictatorship)
- and like that, one of the biggest community-driven DB of scene music is gone
That's just not OK in my books.
And that the pouet.net admin seems OK with that, and uses a condescending (and irrelevant) "bar owner" analogy to voice that... is a bit disappointing and frightening.
Good night.
(I hope a peaceful outcome will be found, so that Nectarine can continue in a form or another, without loss of data)
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it seems VodkaBot had some running joke of cueing tracks by CyberJeff en masse, especially the low-scoring ones
10 years ago, back when I was listening to Nectarine daily, a few idiots were already doing that on a regular basis. I suppose they finally managed to get what they wanted: piss off the entire community once and for all.
Congrats.
But Gargaj - since you seem to think this (seemingly out of the blue) action was completely rational and justified -
would you just pull the plug on Pouet one day without warning?
would you just pull the plug on Pouet one day without warning?
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Ah, so you're advocating that we kiss ass and pretend to be nice even when we're resentful about this behavior, just so the powerful person will produce the outcome that we want?
well you know, i was wondering what emotions were in play here so i'm glad you cleared that up.
personally, i was disappointed in what happened. i was curious as to why it happened. and i can understand at least, frustration and even anger that somebody took something away from you that you were attached to.
but resentment? where does that come from?
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This is all about a power trip.
a clue? :/ i dunno i just don't get it.
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LOL, what you're describing is exactly how a domestically-abusive relationship operates.
yes and no. or, yes but you're the abusive one. you think the people who run the website literally owe you a service, community, whatever. and if they fail you you call them "troubled" - by which you clarify - it's not that they're having mental problems, they are just A BAD PERSON. YOU are the one insisting that they stay in the relationship despite it being damaging to THEM, because YOU think you are entitled to it.
but this is still a stupid analogy. it's just a website. you're not dependent on it for a roof over your head or food in your stomach. Arab doesn't have any actual power over you or your life other than that you might have to listen to something else now to get your demoscene music hit. boo frickin' hoo. get a grip.
and look i don't know how many admins Nectarine had or anything about the structure there, but they can discuss this among themselves. as a mere user i've got no claim on anything and any emotions i have on the matter i can damn well own.
Lame ass fake accounts now? Seems like Nectarine had it coming...
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The dispute was clearly a minor one and apparently not so important for the closure. Arab had given some signs about losing his motivation earlier and the dispute was just an opportunity (an excuse?) to make the final move.
If that's the case then, wouldn't it be more reasonable to pass the site to someone else from the community or admin/moderator team?