Challenge: Which was the first demoscene demo?
category: residue [glöplog]
Let's play a little game. If you're keen :)
Pouet has quite some record of approximate release dates for demos! :) More approximate the further you get from the year 2000 when Pouet started, which is understandable. So qualifying for "first" will require of us some relaxation on the part of the exact date.
The dates here start on page 370, with a lot of Apple II which fits with my research - for the cracking scene, which brought us all the luberly games that we enjoyed!
Crack Intros or screens before games certainly overlap with the demoscene (not least in cracking groups becoming demogroups!), but I'm looking for the origins of the demoscene proper, and in that, the origin of the first demoscene demo.
So, if you like games:
With the following rules, who can name the first demo?
1. It doesn't introduce anything or serve a purpose, such as a tech demo for a computer or a piece of software - the reason you run the demo is to enjoy what's executed. (Yes, I know this excludes Boing, I'm sticking to it!) I will define enjoyment as having something of what we call an effect: beyond implementing a non-trivial hardware feature (such as logo+scroll or writer). Also this goes for game previews (which may contain effects) because...
2. It must be linked to a scene that is not a game scene, cracker scene, PD scene, mailing list, company, etc., but a demoscene. The link is mostly an absence of reference to the previous, and can be as simple as showing what you made with no words. If words are used, there must be a link in those words to suggest that there is a demoscene, as in...
3. It must have at least one known credit and two members mentioned (of which the credit can be one member), and those members must be (known later as) handles, not realnames, and both handles must both be associated with groups that went on to make at least 1 more demo for the same group using the same handles. Oof. :) (Because of the nature of the challenge, one exception to the "1 more prod rule" (only) is allowed: if they greet groups or handles of groups that later went on to make at least 1 more demo.)
In other words, 'handle' "Tom" may have made a demo on his own and greet 'handle' "Jimmy" who's his friend, but if so they must have decided on a group name that's in the demo, and that name must be other than "Tom & Jimmy", and the text mustn't mention only "Ben & Jerry over at the other school", but suggest that there's another group in the demoscene as per 2. (Again, because of the nature of the question, an exception must be allowed: no text messages at all is completely allowed (IF and only if there are clear credits in the demo) BUT the demo must then be referenced by a demoscene group with a few months later.)
These are my rules for this little game. I should have tightened most loopholes to find the Origins of the Demoscene. For "rules of the game"'s sake, let's stick to them, and should you find loopholes let's bring them into the second round. Fair enough? :)
So the question is,
Can you name the earliest candidate that meets the 3 criteria?
Pouet has quite some record of approximate release dates for demos! :) More approximate the further you get from the year 2000 when Pouet started, which is understandable. So qualifying for "first" will require of us some relaxation on the part of the exact date.
The dates here start on page 370, with a lot of Apple II which fits with my research - for the cracking scene, which brought us all the luberly games that we enjoyed!
Crack Intros or screens before games certainly overlap with the demoscene (not least in cracking groups becoming demogroups!), but I'm looking for the origins of the demoscene proper, and in that, the origin of the first demoscene demo.
So, if you like games:
With the following rules, who can name the first demo?
1. It doesn't introduce anything or serve a purpose, such as a tech demo for a computer or a piece of software - the reason you run the demo is to enjoy what's executed. (Yes, I know this excludes Boing, I'm sticking to it!) I will define enjoyment as having something of what we call an effect: beyond implementing a non-trivial hardware feature (such as logo+scroll or writer). Also this goes for game previews (which may contain effects) because...
2. It must be linked to a scene that is not a game scene, cracker scene, PD scene, mailing list, company, etc., but a demoscene. The link is mostly an absence of reference to the previous, and can be as simple as showing what you made with no words. If words are used, there must be a link in those words to suggest that there is a demoscene, as in...
3. It must have at least one known credit and two members mentioned (of which the credit can be one member), and those members must be (known later as) handles, not realnames, and both handles must both be associated with groups that went on to make at least 1 more demo for the same group using the same handles. Oof. :) (Because of the nature of the challenge, one exception to the "1 more prod rule" (only) is allowed: if they greet groups or handles of groups that later went on to make at least 1 more demo.)
In other words, 'handle' "Tom" may have made a demo on his own and greet 'handle' "Jimmy" who's his friend, but if so they must have decided on a group name that's in the demo, and that name must be other than "Tom & Jimmy", and the text mustn't mention only "Ben & Jerry over at the other school", but suggest that there's another group in the demoscene as per 2. (Again, because of the nature of the question, an exception must be allowed: no text messages at all is completely allowed (IF and only if there are clear credits in the demo) BUT the demo must then be referenced by a demoscene group with a few months later.)
These are my rules for this little game. I should have tightened most loopholes to find the Origins of the Demoscene. For "rules of the game"'s sake, let's stick to them, and should you find loopholes let's bring them into the second round. Fair enough? :)
So the question is,
Can you name the earliest candidate that meets the 3 criteria?
http://csdb.dk/release/?id=16336
Rob is Jarig & Saulin Penis
I'm quite sure it isn't, but i'll just throw it in anyway http://csdb.dk/release/?id=20062 as it's finnish and i guess meets the (rather obscure) rules.
btw. yea it has to be Rob is Jarig
varvi by inapt. or rob is jarig.
Thats easy, just find the first cracktro without a game.
This was a classic around here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJtH0nbQprA
I knew some of these personally aswell. These guys were definately part of establishing the "scene", aka "not games" mindset. Which peaked in 92-93.where I myself had a top#1 and top 3 (3 votes from first) in music competitions. And then it faded. A NuScene would be.. Fair Pay In Cyberspace. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR3gmLVjHS5A702wo4bol_Q?spfreload=5
PBWY.
I knew some of these personally aswell. These guys were definately part of establishing the "scene", aka "not games" mindset. Which peaked in 92-93.where I myself had a top#1 and top 3 (3 votes from first) in music competitions. And then it faded. A NuScene would be.. Fair Pay In Cyberspace. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR3gmLVjHS5A702wo4bol_Q?spfreload=5
PBWY.
I think it's really hard to say which was the first demoscene demo according to the given criteria, but The Judges were a really early (1986) group who weren't involved in cracking at all to my knowledge.
If it has to have some kind of link to a demoscene probably something from the Compunet era.
penty of these I would consider demos, but they don't meet your rules.
https://demozoo.org/productions/?page=1&dir=asc
https://demozoo.org/productions/?page=1&dir=asc
those rules are kinda ... funky indeed :) there have been quite a lot of things "not game" around in the very early days (ie 83/84) but most things didnt contain credits or groupnames, or let alone greetings. that was only established a bit later. compunet stuff might be a good guess indeed.
Quote:
those rules are kinda ...
..spot on! I for got one super interested in potential suggestions. I immediately had a few in mind, which I quickly ruled out after going through the requirements in my head. TBH, this requires input of guys who where actually around during the time when "demo" became a thing. Paging Grendel & co.
If you think about the whole design here it really claims the scene of 92-93 is the relevant one. That is why I almost HAD to use the nick Bitscéner now, to indicate that, and also that now you probably should be doing something like indeed my Fair Pay Project.
PBWY!
PBWY!
Early 1001 crew, Purebyte, Grendel, Pater Becker. TMC productions!?
They were slowly getting into demonstrations (not just ripped music), greetings, scrollers, handles and meetings
They were slowly getting into demonstrations (not just ripped music), greetings, scrollers, handles and meetings
Would be easy to resolve this if we could sort the damn parties chronologically...
Challenge is...find 30 year old parties with atleast 8 or 10 entries.
If you can't blame it on Gargaj...
http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=497&when=1990
I'm, leading btw.
Challenge is...find 30 year old parties with atleast 8 or 10 entries.
If you can't blame it on Gargaj...
http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=497&when=1990
I'm, leading btw.
http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=565&when=1989
http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=525&when=1989
http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=359&when=1989
http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=525&when=1989
http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=359&when=1989
Of course...the first compo vote was probably on a BBS
I don't think that fits with the rules, rudi.
Was it a finn who made Pouet? Then the name, considering Jumala, a finnish name of "God", also means Demoscene, and refers the same period.
Speaking of which, the finnish Jesus loves you.
Deus : demos were way before demo parties existed