Social awkwardness != arrogance
category: general [glöplog]
Revision is still strongly resonating with me. For one it's about the sheer amount of creativity thrown at me I'm still digesting. More importantly because of all the good conversations I had. And it's especially the first encounters with somebody I didn't get to talk to before that stuck with me. Particularly getting to hear I'm not the arrogant prick they expected me to be.
So, I thought to make a bit of a confession here, because from what I've heard from others the following is true for many of us. Probably in different stages and extremes: I'm easily overwhelmed in the setting of a demoparty (read: socially awkward). The reasons for this are manifold – and it took me a lof of reflection to get along easier these days. Here's what it was like to be me, attending a demoparty 10 years ago:
- enter the party, sit down and work on a production
- avoid conversation at any cost, I mean: what's the use of smalltalk anyway?
- if somehow stumbling into a conversation: what do I say? IDK - GTFO!
- after most conversations: what the hell did you say again?
- avoid anyone wanting to say anything positive about my work, otherwise:
It resulted in me gravitating around the few people I knew. If I didn't have anything to work on I often sat somewhere in a stupid corner not knowing what to do with my time. Socializing over a beer was definitely a No-Go. Because above.
In retrospect it's kinda funny being regarded as arrogant. It pitied me even more. Yet, I understood it. So, why am I sharing this at all? It would've helped me to read thoughts like these a decade ago. Knowing it's an issue for others as well.
Dear Pouet - don't make me regret sharing this ;)
So, I thought to make a bit of a confession here, because from what I've heard from others the following is true for many of us. Probably in different stages and extremes: I'm easily overwhelmed in the setting of a demoparty (read: socially awkward). The reasons for this are manifold – and it took me a lof of reflection to get along easier these days. Here's what it was like to be me, attending a demoparty 10 years ago:
- enter the party, sit down and work on a production
- avoid conversation at any cost, I mean: what's the use of smalltalk anyway?
- if somehow stumbling into a conversation: what do I say? IDK - GTFO!
- after most conversations: what the hell did you say again?
- avoid anyone wanting to say anything positive about my work, otherwise:
It resulted in me gravitating around the few people I knew. If I didn't have anything to work on I often sat somewhere in a stupid corner not knowing what to do with my time. Socializing over a beer was definitely a No-Go. Because above.
In retrospect it's kinda funny being regarded as arrogant. It pitied me even more. Yet, I understood it. So, why am I sharing this at all? It would've helped me to read thoughts like these a decade ago. Knowing it's an issue for others as well.
Dear Pouet - don't make me regret sharing this ;)
The important lesson is that you evolved from that and are aware of that evolution.
You don't come off as arrogant, quite the contrary - seeing you come down the stage and dancing with everybody on the dancefloor at deadline made my heart jump with joy. You're such a kind guy, don't let anybody tell you any different hase <3
I also wouldn't mistake a guy who suddenly shows up to hug me for someone arrogant :)
You kept calling me Matt Current but I don't really mind that
i met you for the first time this year at demobit and you were cool so you're definitely beyond this state you described. but don't mind my opinion, i'm an extrovert :D
Thanks for sharing, Ronny, I hope you don't regret it. I don't think you should :)
I'm pretty sure a lot of us struggle to some extent with different aspects of social interaction, I know I do. What the actual effect of this is is individual, but I'm pretty sure that if one is guessing why a person behaves as it behaves you're most likely incorrect. Sometimes that incorrectness is hilarious, other times it's hurtful. It's probably best not to guess too much :)
I'm pretty sure a lot of us struggle to some extent with different aspects of social interaction, I know I do. What the actual effect of this is is individual, but I'm pretty sure that if one is guessing why a person behaves as it behaves you're most likely incorrect. Sometimes that incorrectness is hilarious, other times it's hurtful. It's probably best not to guess too much :)
Hey Ronny, thanks a lot for this writeup! Despite appearances at times, I'm convinced that the vast majority of demoparty visitors are introverts. I'm an extrovert, however, and I've taken a long time to understand what you describe because it's so alien to me.
For instance, a long time ago on some Evoke, I ran into a well known German musician (not Ronny :D) in person for the first time. I wanted to compliment him on his awesome soundtrack on some aweome demo, and he sort of waved me off. For a long time, I held a grudge. I thought ht was arrogant. But of course what really happened was exactly what you described.
It's good for us extroverts to sometimes be reminded that introversion isn't just shyness.
For instance, a long time ago on some Evoke, I ran into a well known German musician (not Ronny :D) in person for the first time. I wanted to compliment him on his awesome soundtrack on some aweome demo, and he sort of waved me off. For a long time, I held a grudge. I thought ht was arrogant. But of course what really happened was exactly what you described.
It's good for us extroverts to sometimes be reminded that introversion isn't just shyness.
Hi guys,
thank you for your kind words!!
From the conversations I had I think it's an issue for many of us in varying degrees. Feeling socially isolated from others for a long time can become part of a mental health issue.
If you're reading above points thinking "yeah, kinda rings my bells": it's ok. You're not alone.
Think that's what I wanted to say in first place.
thank you for your kind words!!
From the conversations I had I think it's an issue for many of us in varying degrees. Feeling socially isolated from others for a long time can become part of a mental health issue.
If you're reading above points thinking "yeah, kinda rings my bells": it's ok. You're not alone.
Think that's what I wanted to say in first place.
Dont worry, I think many of us can relate to what you’re feeling :)
Definitely. I'm not that comfortable in large events like this either, especially while sober. Beer helps a lot in my case, which is one of the reasons why I've gotten drunk at demoparties once or twice. Not the healthiest way to get over such issues, but whatever works I guess.
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Definitely. I'm not that comfortable in large events like this either, especially while sober. Beer helps a lot in my case, which is one of the reasons why I've gotten drunk at demoparties once or twice. Not the healthiest way to get over such issues, but whatever works I guess.
No, it really isn't.
It can (and I emphasize *can*) help you get over problems short term, but there is a next day too, in which you'll have to face up to the potential fool you made out of yourself yesterday. Now, if you like me are prone to feeling anxiety over how other people regard you, that next day can be total hell. Sometimes unfounded, sometimes well deserved when I've let alcohol get the better of me.
Over the last year I've taken to drinking considerably less at parties, and it has improved my party experience a lot. It means I'm back to being more reserved socially, but that's fine. In return I get better conversations, fun that's actually fun and not just fueled by alcohol and more memories to enjoy and feel good about when post party depression sets in. Avoiding the physical aspect of hangovers is pretty good too :)
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You kept calling me Matt Current but I don't really mind that
Oh god, I love this so much! :D
Ronny <3 <3 <3
As more people have said, everyone has this and this thread is awesome for emphasising it.
I'm a p extrovert guy (gosh really?) but even I sometimes feel intimidated and small at an event as big as Revision. So if I've made people feel like that, I'm sorry, it was exactly what Ronny described!
What I tried this year is being honest to people when I feel like that and say 'hey man, it's awesome to see you, but I'm really tired, talk to you later ok?' and hopefully the other person gets it, cause we all kinda feel like that :)
@dodke Haha, i have no idea how that happened.
Luckily I don't have to feel bad about it forever anymore these days. Which would have likely happened to me earlier. Up to a point at which I might have left the scene cause I felt so embarassed. Silly, eh?
I mean, so many faces, names, handles. You can only remember so much.
Letting go of the expectation to remember fucking everything and feeling shitty about not being able to was one of the things that made my life much easier in retrospect.
And indeed, while Beer makes it easier to connect it also makes it easier to talk shit. Especially when presented a microphone at an award ceremony *cough*.
Luckily I don't have to feel bad about it forever anymore these days. Which would have likely happened to me earlier. Up to a point at which I might have left the scene cause I felt so embarassed. Silly, eh?
I mean, so many faces, names, handles. You can only remember so much.
Letting go of the expectation to remember fucking everything and feeling shitty about not being able to was one of the things that made my life much easier in retrospect.
And indeed, while Beer makes it easier to connect it also makes it easier to talk shit. Especially when presented a microphone at an award ceremony *cough*.
@ronny: i can totally relate to what you wrote here!
@ronny: on the money.
It can be very easy to get the wrong impression of someone within these social circles. I'll be honest, when I first heard about Ronny back in the old Rohformat days, I put him up there with the most elite on musicians (which he is naturally). The label seemed to exude a tough attitude, and bloody great output too so you end up building what you think that person might be like.
Add up those years of adoration and then finally meeting them in person in that one small brief moment you get at a party but combine that with social awkwardness and you could easily think.. wtf, they just don't wanna talk to the likes of me.. bam, wrong impression. Or the other way round, you meet someone who's work you admire and YOU freeze, giving them the wrong impression of you.
Obviously that hasn't happened in my case with Ronny, but those circumstances could easily lead to the wrong impression of someone. The only chance you have to change that view is probably another year away at another party.
Also add into this that English is the preferred medium for communication which for a lot of people is a 2nd language and someone can also easily get the wrong end of the stick.
Add up those years of adoration and then finally meeting them in person in that one small brief moment you get at a party but combine that with social awkwardness and you could easily think.. wtf, they just don't wanna talk to the likes of me.. bam, wrong impression. Or the other way round, you meet someone who's work you admire and YOU freeze, giving them the wrong impression of you.
Obviously that hasn't happened in my case with Ronny, but those circumstances could easily lead to the wrong impression of someone. The only chance you have to change that view is probably another year away at another party.
Also add into this that English is the preferred medium for communication which for a lot of people is a 2nd language and someone can also easily get the wrong end of the stick.
I can totally relate to that. Besides being more of an extrovert person, I feel to have lots of awkward moments at parties as well, when I don't know what to say or just start talking and later overthink on the phrasing used and what the other might misinterpret in it.
Also people tend to think I'm sarcastic, when I most of the time absolutely mean things I say the way I say it. And then I used to get drunk a lot (which I stopped the last years), which doesn't make it any better.
-> Extroverts also can have a hard time with social interaction. (even if it might not look like it)
Also people tend to think I'm sarcastic, when I most of the time absolutely mean things I say the way I say it. And then I used to get drunk a lot (which I stopped the last years), which doesn't make it any better.
-> Extroverts also can have a hard time with social interaction. (even if it might not look like it)
And ronny, I finally got to know you better at the last Demobit party and agree with the others that you really are a nice person <3
@rp I am in Matt Current so you weren't really wrong.
ronny: I fully agree and relate to what you wrote. Dealing with people I don't know is extremely difficult for me, and especially when surrounded in an environment like that I tend to become extremely reclusive. I never felt you were arrogant in the first place though <3 (might have something to do with you immediately giving me a big hug when we accidentally first met at Revision 2017.)
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@rp I am Matt Current so you weren't really wrong.
Fixed!
At this point I want to give credit to dub for making me work on my hugability.
Btw, I didn't want to fish for compliments. Often not sure how things I write or say get along. Some bitchy part of me needed to clarify that.
Btw, I didn't want to fish for compliments. Often not sure how things I write or say get along. Some bitchy part of me needed to clarify that.
Interesting thread. I'm actually quite extroverted, but I know I can come across as being rather arrogant or at least uninterested in social interaction, because of autism basically. Being different while growing up has also made me a bit apprehensive as well as being used to being alone, so that accounts for a lot of my seemingly disinterested standing around. I've found people usually have a completely different opinion of me after we've had our first proper conversation however.
Let me chime in on this from the other perspective, i.e. the approacher, not the approachee.
First off, most people need to learn to read others better. There is a distinct difference in body language, facial expression, tone of voice, use of vocabulary between someone not responding or being terse because they feel awkward or not sure how to respond, and someone not responding or being dismissive because they're arrogant. This a bit harder through the internet via text, but in person please pay attention to all of these factors because they're crucial to understand the other person - which is why you approached them in the first place.
Secondly, give other people slack. The nicest people in the world can have shit days, hangovers, stuffed noses, sudden deaths in the family, complicated things on their mind or just general exhaustion which can turn them into less their shiny happy selves and instead they can be a bit spiky, especially if being in a social settings already takes up a lot of their energy and "being nice" isn't high on the priority list. It is entirely possible that you were just #15 that day trying to ask something and the capability to be nice ran out. (Jim Sterling has a great video on this.)
I've had countless situations where I approached people and they didn't seem to be what I expected them to be, but approaching them some time later would often flip that initial experience into a more positive one simply because a single experience isn't enough to define a person.
First off, most people need to learn to read others better. There is a distinct difference in body language, facial expression, tone of voice, use of vocabulary between someone not responding or being terse because they feel awkward or not sure how to respond, and someone not responding or being dismissive because they're arrogant. This a bit harder through the internet via text, but in person please pay attention to all of these factors because they're crucial to understand the other person - which is why you approached them in the first place.
Secondly, give other people slack. The nicest people in the world can have shit days, hangovers, stuffed noses, sudden deaths in the family, complicated things on their mind or just general exhaustion which can turn them into less their shiny happy selves and instead they can be a bit spiky, especially if being in a social settings already takes up a lot of their energy and "being nice" isn't high on the priority list. It is entirely possible that you were just #15 that day trying to ask something and the capability to be nice ran out. (Jim Sterling has a great video on this.)
I've had countless situations where I approached people and they didn't seem to be what I expected them to be, but approaching them some time later would often flip that initial experience into a more positive one simply because a single experience isn't enough to define a person.
