Bincoin mining & GPUs
category: offtopic [glöplog]
i find it annoying how the supposedly educated people here dismiss and make supposedly "clever" comments about something they have no idea what the fuck actually is and how it works
you can hate or love bitcoins, i don't care (i don't even have any coins, though that may change in the future), but for god's sake please go, read, and fucking try to understand how it works before commenting on it, kthxbye
you can hate or love bitcoins, i don't care (i don't even have any coins, though that may change in the future), but for god's sake please go, read, and fucking try to understand how it works before commenting on it, kthxbye
I personnaly don't like the bitcoins and how it work.
The fact is that is just a waste of energy, and only already rich people can make money from it, speculate and this is the room for many bad use.
I think about criminality (even if the bitcoins owner are not all criminals ;)) and so.
The idea is good, but the human kind will make a bad use of this, for sure.
The fact is that is just a waste of energy, and only already rich people can make money from it, speculate and this is the room for many bad use.
I think about criminality (even if the bitcoins owner are not all criminals ;)) and so.
The idea is good, but the human kind will make a bad use of this, for sure.
money is a root of all kinds of evil but every modern society need a monetary system...
It's not about how it works, it's about the philosophy and mentality behind it that I find problematic.
I agree with Tomoya, thread name should be changed to "Random Bitcoin Thread".
Some recent estimations made me more angry at Bitcoin than I already was, so here's a necropost in case there are still people who don't realize what a horrifying waste of energy Bitcoin is.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bitcoin-is-still-unsustainable
https://twitter.com/coda/status/868931338400694272
http://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
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A new index has recently modeled potential energy costs per transaction as high as 94 kWh, or enough electricity to power 3.17 households for a day.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bitcoin-is-still-unsustainable
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Still amazed that Bitcoin takes roughly the same amount of power needed to run AWS's us-east-1 to handle <4 transactions per second. That's ~50 KWh per transaction, which is like $6 at residential prices. In terms of CO₂ emissions, that's about 4 gallons of gasoline or 37 pounds of coal. This is going off entirely non-canonical estimates of power usage in the range of 500KW to 1.2GW.
https://twitter.com/coda/status/868931338400694272
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The entire Bitcoin network now consumes more energy than a number of countries, based on a report published by the International Energy Agency.
http://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
current bank cartels with central bank system = one ring rules everyone wastes more than just an energy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOxLQI07ko
And BitCoin is going to fix that of course!
Bitcoin has the exact same "1% owns 99%" problem as any economy, so what exactly is different?
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Bitcoin has the exact same "1% owns 99%" problem as any economy, so what exactly is different?
https://youtu.be/Q1B0BRoJRkM
Couple of years ago I used to mine bitcoins in order to keep my apartment warm in winter. Still better than "dumb" heaters, as mining basically covered for electricity bill!
That just shows that electricity is too cheap.
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And BitCoin is going to fix that of course!
no, but at least you have an alternative to choose
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Bitcoin has the exact same "1% owns 99%" problem as any economy, so what exactly is different?
no one force you to use it, if you do not like it and you do not see advantages for you ..that's a big difference
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That just shows that electricity is too cheap.
is it possible that something can be "too cheap"? :)
Why not just buy Ethereum and be billionaires in 2 years time.
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Bitcoin has the exact same "1% owns 99%" problem as any economy, so what exactly is different?
I do not see there 1-99% distribution (and no, the economy does not have that problem neither) comparing with FED or ECB which are real monopolies for printing and distribution of the money, and manipulation of the interest rates...
you can also consider blockchain as a payment system
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Why not just buy Ethereum and be billionaires in 2 years time.
do it if you believe in it :)
What does hashrate has to do with ownership though? The actual distribution of Bitcoin wealth is far from that distributed: http://www.businessinsider.com/927-people-own-half-of-the-bitcoins-2013-12
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What does hashrate has to do with ownership though? The actual distribution of Bitcoin wealth is far from that distributed: http://www.businessinsider.com/927-people-own-half-of-the-bitcoins-2013-12
and so what? who loses what? what would different if the amount of bitcoin would be redistributed between 10000 of people for example? They are not able to reverse the network or changes the rules (what governments and central banks can do :)...the value of Bitcoin is setted of how much people trust in it and use it, not who owns it...
and no, people are not poor because Bill Gates is rich :)
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Bitcoin has the exact same "1% owns 99%" problem as any economy, so what exactly is different?
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What does hashrate has to do with ownership though? The actual distribution of Bitcoin wealth is far from that distributed: http://www.businessinsider.com/927-people-own-half-of-the-bitcoins-2013-12
inb4 stalin did nothing wrong
Amigacoin anyone? On a more serious note, Litecoin have had a surge in price lately and is less of a PITA to use.
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Bitcoin has the exact same "1% owns 99%" problem as any economy, so what exactly is different?
I thought money was an exchange value, why does it have to deal with equity?
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Why not just buy Ethereum and be billionaires in 2 years time.
actually, Vitalik Buterin was sitting next to me at Revision this year
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Couple of years ago I used to mine bitcoins in order to keep my apartment warm in winter.
Might want to pop a fan on that processor m8.
The question is, do I really need to own a bitcoin when the price for 1 BTC is so high and still rising so hard to mine and so unstable? What is it good for to own BTC? To pay goods, but that I can pay with current money. Or to invest just to a piece of data? :)
:D
cryptocurrencies rely on using a hash function with a VERY computationally complex inverse. best one that utilizes NP>P, so it can not be solved in [polynomial time], but takes significantly longer.
The value of a transaction is equal to the computation time and energy cost of finding a "good enough" inverse (by trial and error of solving a non-polynomial task in polynomial time), and then sending the remaining bits (the epsilon of your heuristically good enough solution) as "pseudorandom noise" for the next transaction. This is the basis of concurrency.
This way you are extremely unlikely able to guess or [gradient-decent] the correct inverse /or a good enough approximation) of the hash multiple times in a row AND faster than most people who do not use it maliciously (in agreement with each other, forwarding the same noise), with concurrency over time. As The (good enough) solution of a previous hash is the seed for the next hash.
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the problem with that is, that you want the best type of these hashes, and one with many bits, like 256 bits would be great, because pow(2,155) is roughly equal to the number of electrons in the visible universe.
Then you are left with only a few of "the best" methods (depending on your biases).
You also likely want to use the same hash function of a previous concurrency, if only for simplicity and to attract the same people with the same hardware and expertise (for maintenance).
These hashes are then significantly more efficiently implemented in more dedicated hardware, that ONLY solves that hash as fast and energy efficient as possible.
more dedicated crypto-hashing-hardware then outperforms a general GPU hardware (for cryptocurreny purposes), and a shift in interests may lead to more sales in GPUs, temporarily lowering their value.
The value of a transaction is equal to the computation time and energy cost of finding a "good enough" inverse (by trial and error of solving a non-polynomial task in polynomial time), and then sending the remaining bits (the epsilon of your heuristically good enough solution) as "pseudorandom noise" for the next transaction. This is the basis of concurrency.
This way you are extremely unlikely able to guess or [gradient-decent] the correct inverse /or a good enough approximation) of the hash multiple times in a row AND faster than most people who do not use it maliciously (in agreement with each other, forwarding the same noise), with concurrency over time. As The (good enough) solution of a previous hash is the seed for the next hash.
---
the problem with that is, that you want the best type of these hashes, and one with many bits, like 256 bits would be great, because pow(2,155) is roughly equal to the number of electrons in the visible universe.
Then you are left with only a few of "the best" methods (depending on your biases).
You also likely want to use the same hash function of a previous concurrency, if only for simplicity and to attract the same people with the same hardware and expertise (for maintenance).
These hashes are then significantly more efficiently implemented in more dedicated hardware, that ONLY solves that hash as fast and energy efficient as possible.
more dedicated crypto-hashing-hardware then outperforms a general GPU hardware (for cryptocurreny purposes), and a shift in interests may lead to more sales in GPUs, temporarily lowering their value.
