Should demoscene be explicit or P.C.?
category: offtopic [glöplog]
I suggest not to flag things as juvenile or childish or you discriminate the youth and children by your own P.C. codex :-D
In the past, sceners brought their girlfriends to demoparties and went into trouble when they were exposed to the real thing. Nowadays people bring their children and do the same mistake again. Ah, wait, i brought my son as well to some parties. It worked out well in the end, despite the boobs i drew.
The easier people feel offended, the more rules an codices they need to shelter themselves. Or is it in the end not the minorities that feel offended, but those who build up rules to protect the minorities? At this point P.C. just fails. Also art was most politically correct under dictatorships, where incorrect interpretations ended in jail or labour camps. A few thoughts to reflect upon :-D Upset reactions welcome.
In the past, sceners brought their girlfriends to demoparties and went into trouble when they were exposed to the real thing. Nowadays people bring their children and do the same mistake again. Ah, wait, i brought my son as well to some parties. It worked out well in the end, despite the boobs i drew.
The easier people feel offended, the more rules an codices they need to shelter themselves. Or is it in the end not the minorities that feel offended, but those who build up rules to protect the minorities? At this point P.C. just fails. Also art was most politically correct under dictatorships, where incorrect interpretations ended in jail or labour camps. A few thoughts to reflect upon :-D Upset reactions welcome.
Quote:
Also art was most politically correct under dictatorships, where incorrect interpretations ended in jail or labour camps. A few thoughts to reflect upon :-D
wow insightful
what preacher and kb said
i think this is a sort-of false dichotomy... why not just use common sense and don't produce stuff that will hurt groups of people? (and no, the kevin demo didn't hurt anyone)
also, the scene is pretty good at self-regulating things, i think. if you do a demo, say, full of stereotypical jokes about black people, you're a wanker and will be treated as such. luckily we don't need any "scene-laws" in that regard - even back in the late 1980s, i read recently in a copy-party report how one guy was beaten up by sceners at the party because he made racist remarks about a black member of their group.
this also concerns mysogyny in the scene - while back when the demoscene was an almost male-only pursuit, it was perfectly acceptable not only to flood the graphics compos with ridiculously disproportional bare tits, but also to display the worst sort of anti-women discourse in disgmags etc. nowadays, finally, more and more women play a role in the scene, winning gfx compos and such, and finally have a say themselves on how the scene sees and displays women. and male sceners, seeing such strong presence release-wise by the opposite sex, and last not least not wanting to appear like chauvinist pigs at demoparties face to face with female scene members, will now think twice before behaving like idiots. this is not "p.c.", this is common sense.
this also concerns mysogyny in the scene - while back when the demoscene was an almost male-only pursuit, it was perfectly acceptable not only to flood the graphics compos with ridiculously disproportional bare tits, but also to display the worst sort of anti-women discourse in disgmags etc. nowadays, finally, more and more women play a role in the scene, winning gfx compos and such, and finally have a say themselves on how the scene sees and displays women. and male sceners, seeing such strong presence release-wise by the opposite sex, and last not least not wanting to appear like chauvinist pigs at demoparties face to face with female scene members, will now think twice before behaving like idiots. this is not "p.c.", this is common sense.
also, this whole p.c. hysteria is a strawman discussion built up by the right: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-correctness-how-the-right-invented-phantom-enemy-donald-trump
Male sceners are just nice to female sceners because they hope to score with one of them. It is not to discuss the goals of the feminist movement or because of obeying political correctness rules.
Also, playing offended is like a superweapon that can be used for just anything to be stopped. So how low will the line go in the end that we can't step over? However, i am okay to be confirmed as an asshole :-D Go on, there's nothing to see.
Also, playing offended is like a superweapon that can be used for just anything to be stopped. So how low will the line go in the end that we can't step over? However, i am okay to be confirmed as an asshole :-D Go on, there's nothing to see.
IMHO (and reflecting to the original question):
Demoscene is a type of art, and thus could be categorized into very different styles, sections, boxes, etc. Bringing sexism, swearing, politics, or any "non PC" content is a very dangerous trial/act, which could be easily misinterpreted. But if it hits the audience (in a positive way), then it could give a very big multiplier factor for the whole product.
A very good example for that is the Function'16 winner demo what you've made together with Jimmy. It contained politics, it contained very explicit sarcasm, still it won the competition, because besides it contained lots of criticism, it was also hilarious, and reached out to the whole audience.
If you plan to continue on that way, maybe there will be entries what will blow up the mind of several people, and won't be successful at all, and for that journey you would need a lot of patience, but I'm pretty sure that even with explicit content there is a way to find the elegant representation, and as long as it's classy and not disgusting it could deliver a big plus from artistic POV.
It's just very very very (...) dangerous way of the arts.
My 2 cents.
Demoscene is a type of art, and thus could be categorized into very different styles, sections, boxes, etc. Bringing sexism, swearing, politics, or any "non PC" content is a very dangerous trial/act, which could be easily misinterpreted. But if it hits the audience (in a positive way), then it could give a very big multiplier factor for the whole product.
A very good example for that is the Function'16 winner demo what you've made together with Jimmy. It contained politics, it contained very explicit sarcasm, still it won the competition, because besides it contained lots of criticism, it was also hilarious, and reached out to the whole audience.
If you plan to continue on that way, maybe there will be entries what will blow up the mind of several people, and won't be successful at all, and for that journey you would need a lot of patience, but I'm pretty sure that even with explicit content there is a way to find the elegant representation, and as long as it's classy and not disgusting it could deliver a big plus from artistic POV.
It's just very very very (...) dangerous way of the arts.
My 2 cents.
Quote:
Male sceners are just nice to female sceners because they hope to score with one of them.
well, that's part of my "common sense" argument, too. if you don't want to be treated like a wanker (i.e. a girl isn't interested in you because you're a sexist pig), the first step is don't behave as such. and that's already a sort of progress.
Quote:
Male sceners are just nice to female sceners because they hope to score with one of them.
Ummmm... what?
anyway, i think kb nailed it perfectly (i didn't read his post when writing mine), so there's little left to say.
Quote:
demoscene has to follow the path of political correctness as it is a mature-enough form of art
hahahahaha. FUCK OFF
Quote:
Male sceners are just nice to female sceners because they hope to score with one of them.
See, this IS a good thread to single out the people to be rounded up in the P.C. death camps.
You guys are so funny.
Also, well, honestly dipswitch is being juvenile here as well by calling other people "wankers". If that's like the standard phrase you use to call other men that are unsuccessful with women, I am sorry, but you are an asshole too.
So guys, chill down, if bitbreaker has "scoring" issues, we should show some empathy towards him. He just have to realize that demoscene party is not the best place for finding a sexual partner. That's it.
Also, well, honestly dipswitch is being juvenile here as well by calling other people "wankers". If that's like the standard phrase you use to call other men that are unsuccessful with women, I am sorry, but you are an asshole too.
So guys, chill down, if bitbreaker has "scoring" issues, we should show some empathy towards him. He just have to realize that demoscene party is not the best place for finding a sexual partner. That's it.
Quote:
Male sceners are just nice to female sceners because they hope to score with one of them.
why don't you P.C. wankers (sic) not just make your dedicated P.C. wanking party and bore yourself to death with P.C. arts? problem solved!
Quote:
Male sceners are just nice to female sceners because they hope to score with one of them.
This explains why gay sceners are total dicks towards female sceners, as they have nothing to gain.
You guys are so funny.
Also, well, honestly tomkh is being a human being here as well by calling other people "asshole". If that's like the standard phrase you use to call other human beings that are unsuccessful with PC codices, I am sorry, but you are a human being too.
So guys, chill down, if tomkh has "judgmental" issues, we should show some empathy towards him. He just have to realize that demoscene website is not the best place for arguing his points. That's it.
Also, well, honestly tomkh is being a human being here as well by calling other people "asshole". If that's like the standard phrase you use to call other human beings that are unsuccessful with PC codices, I am sorry, but you are a human being too.
So guys, chill down, if tomkh has "judgmental" issues, we should show some empathy towards him. He just have to realize that demoscene website is not the best place for arguing his points. That's it.
@tomkh: Seeing my marital status and amount of children, i think i scored enough, no empathy needed :-D Just in case someone wants to misunderstand my statement ;-)
havoc: great job! ;)
aba olle samma wix un jeda woas wies geht!
Quote:
It contained politics, it contained very explicit sarcasm, still it won the competition, because besides it contained lots of criticism, it was also hilarious, and reached out to the whole audience.
It was also punching up, not punching down. Very important distinction.
Quote:
If that's like the standard phrase you use to call other men that are unsuccessful with women
no, it's just a synonym for asshole, nothing more nothing less, so stop playing the troll once again and over-interpret things.
dipswitch: notice an "if". If you meant "an asshole", then, logically speaking, you are not an asshole. Problem solved. However, calling someone a "troll" (directly) is offending ;) It truly hurts me.
sometimes common sense helps to figure things out or to make decisions.
Quote:
while back when the demoscene was an almost male-only pursuit, it was perfectly acceptable not only to flood the graphics compos with ridiculously disproportional bare tits, but also to display the worst sort of anti-women discourse in disgmags etc. nowadays[...]
So the quality/relevance of a release is based on the current audience rather than the release itself, even if it is the same one? o_O
