pouët.net

any precedent for windowless applications? demos or code works that operate in transparent or multiple windows, or even behind the icons?

I'm very new to this forum / site but I've been lurking for a while, wondering what you all have come across in this direction?

Musicdisks generally are alpha-masked, Leitmotiv also had a weirdly shaped menu.

wondering because I have humbly submitted 3 of my works to this website and I am eager to get this community's reaction to them ? all three kind of...resist the window... adn I am wondering how that could be received in these circles?

is it also weird for me to offer up my works for consideration?

beat me down if this is whack, im new here

welcome!

nothing wrong with windowless apps.

nothing wrong with being new and wanting to get some feedback either.

your submissions don't seem to really be related to the demoscene culture though. so they will most likely either be ignored or get flamed.

how did you come across the demoscene? have you talked with other demosceners about what is and is not considered a demo?

have you ever visited a demoparty? that's usually the best window into the demoscene culture.

does it matter if the content is 'related to the demoscene'?

is this a place to see experimental software for the hobbyist that has no place in a commercial world?

wouldn't work 'not related to demoscene' open the doors of creativity and create opportunity for more content?

would work like that really get flamed here? that would be a huge bummer!

and i found this by being incredibly interested in renderers and handmade software

i'm also not pretending my works are a 'demo' in the sense of filesize or software rendering or skill level, i respect the definition completely.

i just don't know where to share them and i HATE posting this stuff on social media!

pouet database is considered to be for demoscene productions only. we had discussions about if non-demoscene things should be accepted or not before, opinions differ but gross majority was for keeping it demoscene related and that's the rule that has been in place lately. the definition of what is demoscene related is subject to interpretation but you're usually safe if:
a) it was released at a demoparty, or
b) is made by demosceners that already have a large reputation of releasing in the demoscene as a release, and clearly identified in the infofiles as being a demoscene release.

all demoscene releases can somewhat be considered experimental software for the hobbyist that have no place in the commercial world. but not all experimental software for the hobbyist that have no place in the commercial world can be considered demos. :)

history has proven that non demoscene work submitted to pouet has been known to either get removed by admins, downvoted by visitors or end up in a flamewar discussion of what is and what is not demoscene related, and how outreach should (or should not) outweight the existing culture.

i would suggest you don't take any early negative feedback too seriously and take the opportunity to get to know the demoscene culture a bit better, to figure out the best fit for your "releases" within the usual demoscene categories.

i cannot recommend enough that you visit a demoparty and randomly say hi to other sceners, demosceners are usually friendly in answering questions to newcomers. :)

if you can't find a demoparty near you, you can always visit ircnet #revision and ask other demosceners for protips on how to avoid pointless flamewars at pouet and get more direct feedback on your experiments. :)

thank you for your advice! i'm in a big city so I'm sure I can find one.

i was never planning on stopping releasing, im not in it for fame, upvotes or glory, its all for fun / boredom.

i'm not looking to challenge any definitions, just to release weird windowless software...

I think your prods have a place here, at least in the wild category. Ultimately the community will decide though, maybe we need a "glitch art" category, I would've some entries for that aswell ?!

Don't get my oneliner the wrong way, I just found it hilarious that you were answering "its free" to wysiwtfs question if this is how its supposed to work :)

One thing though: Upvoting your own productions is frowned upon, so dont do that!

yes saw that. i wont, makes sense.

i want an 'artdisk' category.

artdisk =

- resists the window
- isnt concerned with filesize
- one exe and maybe 1 or 2 dlls
- subverts normal usage patterns of a program
- isnt destructive

i want to make digital art 'scary' and 'risky' again

thoughts? im on #revision rn too

Check out the windows music disk category, most of them are windowless.
I still have done a windowless prod with 3d software render recently but never release it.
Never tried with ogl context (but im pretty sure it wont work).
What I've done is a full GDI prod (with double buffer rendering (yeah gdi doesnt handle it)).
Create a window with SetLayeredWindowAttributes and a specific color then clean your
buffer with that color and youre done.
(BTW you should not clean the entire buffer but just redraw the previous object/sprite with a specific color.)

I would generally echo what's been said here: just get involved.

But I wanted to point out that..

..is not the definition of a demo. Filesize matters *sometimes* and software rendering and skill level do not matter at all. Don't get hung up on trying to fit that definition.

Also.. I see you are in NYC? Can anyone advise of any parties/events in the area?

they are actually having a trainparty over there this year:
http://synchrony.nyc/

yea i hang out at babycastles a lot, unfortunately im going into surgery that month so I wont physically be there.



This is incorrect, it does work, I've done it.

and ok, incorrect definition of demo, smelled that coming a mile away lmao my bad

and blz whispers was/is one of the biggest inspirations for me to write this kind of software, its great absolutely beautiful

some examples of opengl windowless jibberjabber:::
http://www.markfingerhut.com/index.php/computer/about/

uh? nice.
So you can draw any 3d model and as long as you glClear () with the correct color you have a "windowless prod"?
Does it handle transparency? e.g. you glClear() with a specific color and your scene has a fog.
And what about anti-aliasing? You cant do that right? otherwise it will look like crap?

yes, its not using the COLORKEY thing youre probably looking at, in fact thats not necessary. you are GLClearing to 0,0,0,0.

Its a combination of gl enables and win32api layered attributes. theres a rotatin cube demo and a cat demo floating around that i combined for my recipe.

extra credit... this works in unity as well ;-)

antialiasing is irrelevant with this technique, you can do a full 0-255 blending over the desktop. check out my prod obubulator its an example of this

ok just googled a bit. you still have to render into a DIB then blit it.
thx

no you dont!

thats a slow way of doing it

SetWindowLong(handle, -16, lCurStyle);// GWL_STYLE=-16

// Transparent windows with click through
SetWindowLong(handle, -20, 524288 | 32);//GWL_EXSTYLE=-20; WS_EX_LAYERED=524288=&h80000, WS_EX_TRANSPARENT=32=0x00000020L
SetLayeredWindowAttributes(handle, 0, 51, 2);// Transparency=51=20%, LWA_ALPHA=2

SetWindowPos(handle, 0, 0, 0, fWidth, fHeight, 32 | 64); //SWP_FRAMECHANGED = 0x0020 (32); //SWP_SHOWWINDOW = 0x0040 (64)
ShowWindowAsync(handle, 3); //Forces window to show in case of unresponsive app // SW_SHOWMAXIMIZED(3)

copypaste from unity cat demo

its simple flagging on context creation. you do not need to add anymore blts to the process i promise

lolololol.
I have to try this when ill have ogl support on my PC.

you should!

with this concurrent conversation about these third party tools I believe "tricks" like this are vital to the continuation and development of folkware / the demo

like this?

i mean idk what technique youre doing but yes?

all I know is that you dont need any additional blts to make it work!