pouët.net

"
De: "dipswitch" <dipswitch@xxxx.xxxx>
À: "olivier xxxxx" <olivier.xxxxx@xxxx.xxx>
Cc: "Glenn xxxxx" <glennXXXXXX@gmail.com>, "Matt Westcott" <matt@xxx.xx.xx>
Envoyé: Samedi 10 Septembre 2016 22:52:17
Objet: Bill Best contact
Baudsurfer,
I will do my best to ignore your previous public rant, and will hereby simply pass you Bill Best's contact. I talked to him on Thursday (in fact, contrary to your insinuations, I am in touch with him since early 2015), and he explicitly asked to pass this email address on to you, under which you are welcome to contact him: <bill.best@rogers.com>. Before you continue with your theory that we just invented the guy to upset you, here's a proof that he used this email as early as 2004: <http://www.agoraquest.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=23207>.
No matter the outcome of your future communication with Bill Best, I hope you stop going on like this is some personal crusade by us against you. It isn't.
Dipswitch
"

So I call him...

Says OK at first
"Sure..let's have a chat. The middle of the week is better for me but let me know what's good for you. ☺️👍🏼" [12 Septembre 2016 4:14]
...But then has a bathroom flood
"Sorry I missed your call tonight. Our bathroom flooded so I had to deal with that. Have to head off to the hardware store to pick up a plumbers wrench and new gasket for the upper tank." [13 Septembre 2016 1:17]
...But then goes to bed early
"Yeah, I was in bed around 11pm. Gimme a shout Wednesday..maybe around 10pm your time if possible. Going to be heading to IKEA around 6pm my time so anytime between 4pm-5:30pm (10-11:30pm your time) would be ideal. ☺️👍🏼" [13 Septembre 2016 16:43]
...But then his phone runs out of battery
"I missed that. My phone is about to die but I'll email either later tonight or tomorrow for sure. ☺️👍🏼" [ 17 Septembre 2016 1:30]
...Finally after promising to vouch
"Oliver, I need to speak to Christian (MZP) first before I authorize this. He might have something to say." [18 Septembre 2016 23:34]

So I get flake for saying Germans never created RSI, then some other German from demozzoo staff says "call this guy he's Bill Best in Canada", then I call the guy he avoids
me and when I insist says he has now way of confirming either for or against and he will write it publically to 7 people I chose acting as escrows, then finally at
the last moment he asks for permission to another German guy. How ironic.

Now I also have Bill Best confessing he did not know personally either Greg or KangolKid or me or The Skeleton ("I wasn't active then"), so the Wikipedia entry
stating he co-created is wrong and Dipswitch/demozoo staff's comments ("It is indisputable that he was the founding member of RSI.") are also obviously wrong based on this PROOF.
In effect how could he ever have co-created RSI when he admits himself he came after them and never met them. Also If he cannot confirm me he could not thus posssibly confirm
either Greg or KangolKid or The Skeleton...

Transcript of last recorded conversation (07'01"):
Bill: Hey Oliver
Baud: Hey hi Bill [inaudible] Excuse me ?
Bill: Sorry I'm just making dinner right now ...I can't talk too long
Baud: Yeah...So what's this about...
Bill: I talked to the other guys...And they are like...well you know...I just said look I can't verify anything [inaudible] within the group then. Christian...
Bill: I said Christian maybe Christian would know something of a little bit better but right now family pressure making dinner.
Bill: But then because so that's what they said to me "can you verify it ?" and I said "well no I can't verify it, I wasn't you know...I wasn't active at the time so"
Baud: You knew that the Pirateship was the RSI WHQ, right ?
Bill: Yeah but before, like I was saying like before. I stopped, I got out of it before that.
Baud: Before eighty...So what was it 86 or 87 maybe ?
Bill: [inaudible]
Baud: because the only thing to verify is...That I was...They called the group dead in 93, and the only thing you need to verify is that yes RSI's Headquarters were the Pirateship and if I was co-sysop then that's it. That's all. You know.
Bill: I Mean I never went on that board so I don't know right ? So I can't
Baud: Yeah but do you know if KongolKid was the guy with the Kongol hat in Ottawa not Toronto
Bill: I don't think...I think he's from the states I'm pretty sure.
Baud: You think he's from the states ?
Bill Yeah I don't think he's Canadian actually
Baud: Oh ok... because it always listed that it was created by you Bill Craig and kongol kid and all three were Canadians on the Wikipedia so...
Bill: yeah and he was like...I never met him in person. He wasn't really Amiga, he was more c64 right, that's the thing right . So when it came to Amiga it was only me and Christian at the beginning for a long time.
Baud: well because Mr. ZeroPage is not listed as one of the group's creators
Bill: Oh well that's..I mean he should be he was one of the originals
Baud: I have him in my facebook contacts right...I mean I haven't talked to him for long
Bill: because it's the guys are asking me right can you confirm it, and I said well no I can't confirm it because you know I wasn't active at the time
Baud: yes it's also because again the links were different then... people were talking with each other through party lines or BBS but didn't live next to each other
Bill: yeah yeah...
Baud: and we certainly didn't give out our real names at that point because these people got busted... You got busted other ppl got busted an the people who were smart an didn't give out their names didn't get busted. It's as simple as that.
Baud: But the thing is it's not about verifying, it's about counter-not-verifying because they've already acted upon it as if it was unverified and when you're in aneutral state it's not called verified or unverified, it's called neutral.
Baud: And that's what they broke when they called you up and asked you the first time and said did you know Baudsurfer and you said no
Bill: yeah
Baud: so they acted upon that and it's not...It's as if you authorized something against us. Against your own group and I swear... I think we' had a lot of commons, we talked about a lot of stuff we had in common at that period. You know I was there, you know I lived in Ottawa. you know I knew the BBS then.
Bill: Okay well that's no that's fine
Bill: I didn't think... I didn't think [inaudible] getting way too serious [inaudible] You know it's like
Baud: I know I don't want to scare you. This is just 20 year-old kids who have websites and called you up.
Bill: It was 30 years ago
Baud: I know but to me it's important because they've said I'm not telling the truth for eight years and [redacted] if I don't close this chapter as is
Baud: it's just 20 year-olds who trapped you calling you up and you're taking things too seriously going "oh I don't know and..." whereas it's just making the group live.
Baud. It's dead since 1993. We have ten people and we've beeen making first places and it's all going to crumble down just because...I don't know..Just because you're counting ninenty-nine needles on the floor when there's a hundred and one. It makes no sense and it's not serious.
Bill. OKay. I hear you I hear you. Okay.
Bill: let me at least...I'm going to message Christian. Before...Let me. Right now I have to take care of my family. So if you have to wait another day, you have to wait another day.
Baud: okay
Bill: I'm sorry
Baud: don't be sorry, It's okay I just wanted some timeline because it's really hard for me it's realy really hard for me. And I hear you about your family no problem. I'm sorry to call you up for this : it's the only way.
Bill: it's okay I just need to [inaudible]
Baud: okay thanks a lot bye.

PROOF RSI was (still ?) listed in Montreal Canada in 29/06/1990 :
src is : STOLEN DATA Issue #4 was released at "RSI and SILENTS CONFERENCE REPORT" 29/06/1990-01/07/1990 Held in Glostrup Hallen (Glostrup Sports Hall) outside Copenhagen, Denmark
src [https://web.archive.org/save/_embed/http://asle.free.fr/mags/stolendata/sd04-mag.txt]
"
50 RSI 514-325-6325 19200
51 RSI WHQ 517-663-0571 2400/9600
52 RSI VOICE MB. 504-8305-349 2400/9600
"
514-325-6325 is Montreal http://www.everify.com/phoneTeaser.php?number=5143256325&s=rw&source=iareown&addPixel=yes&hideATC=yes

PROOF Red Sector Incorporated did not merge with anybody in 1990 :
src is : Jet Instrument Trainer AMIGA OCS 1990)(Precision Approach)[cr Ballz Boyz] adf
src [https://youtu.be/cBQke2-225k?t=11s]
" [...] Call R.F.O BALLZ BOYZ WHQ 1-613-224-9352 [...] Greetings to ALL members of BALLZ BOYZ!! Greetings to [...] Red Sector"
613-224-9352 is Ontario Canada http://www.callerworld.com/number/613-224-9352
The youtube and corresponding .adf were gravedug 14/09/2013 and I allude to BallzBoyz as early as 11/07/2008 without any information about BallzBoyz anywhere on the net for five other years here : http://www.pouet.net/topic.php?post=218384

PROOF Red Sector Incorporated if ever merged/happened and only after >1990 was illegal :
src is : Wikipedia TRSI entry
src [http://web.archive.org/web/20060913000000/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristar_and_Red_Sector_Incorporated]
"...Not all members from Tristar and Red Sector partook in the cooperative movement that became TRSI."
Obviously uninformed were : Craig, KangolKid, TheSkeleton, Baudsurfer

related : http://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=5463&page=2 in 2008 "Old American sceners call : lost contact !"
related : http://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=10831 in 2016 "Dipswitch tries to rewrite history yet again on Demozoo"
related : http://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=10841 in 2016 "Demozoo and web admins think they can bully real sceners"

i applaud your efforts trying to get to the bottom of things, but there is still no proof you were ever in RSI in the 80s, which is pretty much what it boils down to regarding your legitimacy to ressurect the group name later on.

guys behind demozoo are not in their 20s btw. nor running a conspiracy against you afaik.

Oh sweet Lord, please end this madness.. :/

I see the *actual conversation* you had on the 14th wasn't interesting enough to include on this timeline. Or maybe it just doesn't fit the "Bill Best was trying to avoid me" narrative. *shrug*

does Bill sell wholesale valves?

Do you think any history is accurate, anyway?

Please continue guys though, it's purely entertaining and actually makes no harm IHMO, besides maybe some private e-mail addresses being exposed to spammers (why you at least don't try to obfuscate them?).
As a millenial myself, I'm actually curious to hear all sides of the "conflict" ;)

Gargaj: better close down this thread before all hell breaks loose ? ;)

I have nothing in regards to the issue itself, but honestly, I don't agree that closing threads is democratic and impartial. It takes almost no space inside the database and it is easy to skip the thread if we don't want to read it.

As far as I understand the issue, no side proved anything yet, so it is still an open issue. The guy is trying to reach a conclusion, so simply preventing him from trying is not fair, I guess.

Just my opinion.

@imerso
what he said

imerso:


What would "proof that Baudsurfer was not a co-founder of RSI" look like, in your opinion?

You're approaching this from the wrong angle - we never closed a thread just because we didn't agree with a specific side of the argument. We close threads when it degenerates to a level of discourse where it no longer serves a purpose and instead enters a never-ending cycle of insults and idiotic image posting by rubberneckers. That collectively hurts the community and we don't want to encourage that kind of behaviour. The argument that you should just "skip" threads like that is part of the problem.

bill should retroactively cancel your membership for posting this conversation, and his email, and generally dragging him into this pouet drama.

assuming that talk really happened, i think it's not-so-nice, even juridically debatable, to just post transcriptions of phone calls without consent. transcribing phone calls per se is already pretty borderline psycho

Maali: honestly both sides are kind of worth each other... both seem to have habit to share private correspondence, don't they?

baudsurfer, i'm quite speechless. why you expose someone like this who hasn't been part of the scene since the late 1980s is beyond me.

but, more importantly: you have a rather short attention span, otherwise you would have listened to bill best more carefully. he can not vouch for your membership because he was there BEFORE you, not after you. he doesn't remember seeing you around at the beginning, and after getting busted around 1987, he was no longer around, and thus can't vouch for anything that happened afterwards. thus, he needs to ask MZP, who was still in RSI after that. as simple as that.

i thought i am doing you a favour, giving you a fair chance to get in touch with someone of the original members (mind you, i was ready to accept whatever outcome this conversation would have). but you just see conspiracy everywhere. and i have better things to do than to convince you. so, please leave me out of this from now on.

Do they? I think you may need to back that claim up with evidence. Are you thinking of the line quoted here where we stated we'd publish our own email if he continued to take the discussion to Pouet forums?

(incidentally, it's kind of weird to be described as one of the "sides" of a flamewar, just for wanting to publish some information on a website that matches observable reality.)

It's totally not my business, but...



So basically as for today you don't know if he was a founding member or maybe just an early member or had no connection to RSI at all (as you stated in a previous thread)?

Kind of "doesn't compile" for me at this point ;)

here

tomkh: no. what i meant is that if bill best would have said "okay, you're a nice coder, i allow you to continue the group", i would have had no objections to that (in fact, i would not havy any say at all in that matter, as it's not my group), and would have changed the demozoo entry accordingly.

and why you drag out some shit from 2005 (!) that has no connection whatsoever to the current discussion is beyond my understanding. why are you baheving like a troll?

furthermore, as gasman stressed, neither him not me are a "side" in this "conflict". all we did was to open a "RSI (new)" entry on demozoo, a website we maintain. that's ALL we did! bloody hell!

Few minutes ago you say:


and now that you would expect Bill to say:


Sorry mate, but this doesn't compile even more.
Somehow hard for me to believe you actually expected Bill would have said that after knowing he has no interest or even power to say this kind of thing today.

It looks to me that you guys seriously trying some political war here and actually both of you trying to deceive the public and hope they somehow will take one side aka yours.

But as I said.. I don't mind... it's entertaining, so please continue ;)

tomkh, of course bill would be entitled to say that, as someone who actually co-founded the group. what is about it that you don't understand? also, what the fuck, what political war? and what interest should I have to do that? what sort of politics? you should hear yourself talking... look, i have absolutely no personal interest in rsi or trsi or whatnot. all we did was straightening out a group entry on demozoo, without making any sort of fuzz about it. the one who made the fuzz is baudsurfer. and i'm really tired of this affair, so please continue with someone else, thanks.

dipswitch:
It's a mess, because reputation is at stake (especially Baudsurfer's) and obviously people will always defend their reputation to the very end. That's human nature. IMHO you could lower down the drama by simply reformulating "RSI (new)" description. And I'm not saying to follow Baudsurfer version, just don't mention about co-founding issue at all. But apparently it went too far, so I can understand nobody will give up even a bit at this point. That's why I call it "political war".

tomkh is so silly it's not even funny

Using the same logic he would be also entitled to say: "no, Baudsurfer, you are not allowed to call your group RSI" and did he?