Prh0nstar
category: general [glöplog]
Quote:
THEY DO NOT BELIVE IN GOD, THUS ARE NOT JEWS. asn those who are, are only bu culture, not relegious choice.
dude, could you please stop trying to teach me? i've passed my exam in eastern-europe history on zionism and jewish socialism (BUND), so you dont need to teach me neither on the secular nature of zionism, nor on anything else, okay?
Quote:
A zionist belive in nothing but power and money for the few elect.
have you ever read theodor herzl? i can't remember him saying anything about "power and money for the few elect".
actually it seems like the zionism you talk about is something that you got from your foul pamphlets. i'm talking about historical zionism, which yes, was an ideology failing from the start, but has nothing to do with your perception of it.
but i don't see any reason to go on about historical ideologies since you're nothing but a fool trying to gain some attention with some crude "knowledge".
please visit ye olde clue shoppe a.k.a. university.
your obsession with conspiracy theories is nothing but a poor substitute for a founded education in history and cultural studies.
your choice of "education" sources makes you in no way better than christian fundamentalists, neo-nazis and other political scum of this earth. yes there are secret societies and conspirations, namely of those who make money on all that conspiration rubbish and recruit believers in it for political claims, and YOU are the victim.
and what makes you even more pitiful is that you join in the obscure choir with the same people who would love to see you and your comrades in belief, nationality and ancestry deported and extinct.
i don't think i have anything to add.
try again dumbsmuck flip page backwards
oh wooo, book snakefight! what's the point? should i go and make photos of our uni libraries? having books in the shelf doesn't mean ANYTHING.
your acting reminds me of adok in some way.
your acting reminds me of adok in some way.
Yeah and yours remind me of someone who will eat all the goop your tought, what is your point?
I actually read those books, otherwise, why the fuck woudl i buy them in the first place...geeeez
Try and argue my points rather than tell me that you go to uni and i dont, wich you btw, know nothing aboutl
Try and argue my points rather than tell me that you go to uni and i dont, wich you btw, know nothing aboutl
If you can make a post based on knowledge rather than assumption, i will take adebate about it with you, with relevant sources for study. If youre just going to continue being a joke, im just going to leave this thead at what it is. Those who wants to know, have got some good points at where to start.
okay, which are your points? your original point was whining about getting pr0nstahr level.
and i'm NOT going to argue about your antisemitic claims because this is lost time
and i'm NOT going to argue about your antisemitic claims because this is lost time
Antisemitic claims is lost time?. But you obviously are completely oblivious to what zionism is in depth. My knowledge on this particular subject are very in depth, so that would make what i know anything but crude.
Quote:
If youre just going to continue being a joke, im just going to leave this thead at what it is.
i have no fear about taking up a debate whatever (although i do NOt claim in understanding all the world, i'm studying eastern-europeean history and not the secret world's obscure hidden mechanics). but since you THREAT to leave this topic if i "continue being a joke", i'll rather do the readers on pouet a favour (who certainly have enough of your ranting) and cut this "serious" talk.
ok so be it. but just to clear up something
this is what you have been tought am i right?
Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained. The term "Zionism" was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.
Do you want to know the truth?
this is what you have been tought am i right?
Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained. The term "Zionism" was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.
Do you want to know the truth?
no, we'll settle for goatse thankyouverymuch
This is too long and deep for me to follow, but I'll go with whatever Iblis said.
On a very interesting side note:
I have never posted a single porn pic or made any seriously politically incorrect comments, YET I have managed to annoy, offend and outrage most Pouet users.
On a very interesting side note:
I have never posted a single porn pic or made any seriously politically incorrect comments, YET I have managed to annoy, offend and outrage most Pouet users.
Shane thank you and dont worry, it takes nothing to do just that. remember on pouet you are dumb if you are not on uni, accept racism and rediculement based on assumptions. Basically, if you do anyting that is not "in the book" you are out... 3 words actually describe this state of mind and denial very well.
Ordnung muss sein!!
Ordnung muss sein!!
we're totally speaking past eachother. i can neither adopt your preception nor i do follow the preception you try to stamp on me.
i simply don't CARE about the aspects you are trying to see in this subject.
i've studied zionism as a phenomenon which was the jewish reflection of european, especially polish and italian nation-building movement (which failed 1831 in the first case and succeeded in a national state in the 2nd). the sacral fundament of zionism was layed by zwi hirsch kalischer (1795-1874), who colored the ancient jewish idea of deliverance with the idea of a somewhat nation. it's most possible that the failure of the polish uprising in 1831 inspired kalischer to "do it better", and since 1836 he was engaged in buying land in palestine.
but uhm let me proceed in catchwords:
- moses heß (1812-1875, socialist friend of marx/engels, his critics towards sacral zionism should form the path towards secular/political zionism)
- failure of haskala (jewish "enlightment", intellectual movement) + decline of messianic expectations -> political zionism starts to fill the gap.
- as mentioned above, impulse from post-ancien-regime nationalism, which proved as a effective tool for political and social integration not only in france after 1789, but also in wide parts of europe.
- mosche leib lilienblum (1843-1910) (3 possibilities: a) continuing of the status quo of being opressed b) assimilation c) regaining the land of forefathers)
- leon pinsker (1821-1891) saw national liberation of the jews as a countermeasurement towards the "pathology of antisemitism", sought practical measures for political zionism. nearly no reception in western europe, celebrated amongst russian and polish jews. afaik HE was the one who coined the term "zionism", a nathan birnbaum doesn't come up in my memory.
- theodor herzl ("the jewish state" 1896). very realist criticism on european antisemitism, but at the same time highly utopean thoughts about the "promised land".
- one of the very important reasons why zionism failed to catch the jewish masses in eastern europe (after haskala failed too) was that, in opposition to jewish socialism, zionism operated on highly utopean ranks and the ties with the lower classes weren't deep enough. the fact that zionists dispised the jiddish language as "ghetto slang" and published only in hebrew made their reception radius rather small, while the socialists/BUNDists printed in jiddish and could reach far more people. also zionists completely ignored the goal to make jewish life easier on the spot, instead they were rather aiming to a utopean new-beginning in some land that was not real enough in most jewish minds.
anyway, i don't really know why i'm writing all this down, but sometimes it's just fun to freshen up old subjects to prove to oneself that it's not forgotten yet.
and another thing, one doesnt even have to read the post-structuralists to know that it's pointless to ask for the "truth". every information is subjective. and every information bears a certain value, depending on what you want to find out. even all that conspiracy gibberish is valuable information for a wide range of culturological topics, just like umberto eco (who is a brilliant semiotic and culturologist in first place who just happens to have a talent for putting down his reseach in belletristic form) deals with it in "the foucault pendulum".
i simply don't CARE about the aspects you are trying to see in this subject.
i've studied zionism as a phenomenon which was the jewish reflection of european, especially polish and italian nation-building movement (which failed 1831 in the first case and succeeded in a national state in the 2nd). the sacral fundament of zionism was layed by zwi hirsch kalischer (1795-1874), who colored the ancient jewish idea of deliverance with the idea of a somewhat nation. it's most possible that the failure of the polish uprising in 1831 inspired kalischer to "do it better", and since 1836 he was engaged in buying land in palestine.
but uhm let me proceed in catchwords:
- moses heß (1812-1875, socialist friend of marx/engels, his critics towards sacral zionism should form the path towards secular/political zionism)
- failure of haskala (jewish "enlightment", intellectual movement) + decline of messianic expectations -> political zionism starts to fill the gap.
- as mentioned above, impulse from post-ancien-regime nationalism, which proved as a effective tool for political and social integration not only in france after 1789, but also in wide parts of europe.
- mosche leib lilienblum (1843-1910) (3 possibilities: a) continuing of the status quo of being opressed b) assimilation c) regaining the land of forefathers)
- leon pinsker (1821-1891) saw national liberation of the jews as a countermeasurement towards the "pathology of antisemitism", sought practical measures for political zionism. nearly no reception in western europe, celebrated amongst russian and polish jews. afaik HE was the one who coined the term "zionism", a nathan birnbaum doesn't come up in my memory.
- theodor herzl ("the jewish state" 1896). very realist criticism on european antisemitism, but at the same time highly utopean thoughts about the "promised land".
- one of the very important reasons why zionism failed to catch the jewish masses in eastern europe (after haskala failed too) was that, in opposition to jewish socialism, zionism operated on highly utopean ranks and the ties with the lower classes weren't deep enough. the fact that zionists dispised the jiddish language as "ghetto slang" and published only in hebrew made their reception radius rather small, while the socialists/BUNDists printed in jiddish and could reach far more people. also zionists completely ignored the goal to make jewish life easier on the spot, instead they were rather aiming to a utopean new-beginning in some land that was not real enough in most jewish minds.
anyway, i don't really know why i'm writing all this down, but sometimes it's just fun to freshen up old subjects to prove to oneself that it's not forgotten yet.
and another thing, one doesnt even have to read the post-structuralists to know that it's pointless to ask for the "truth". every information is subjective. and every information bears a certain value, depending on what you want to find out. even all that conspiracy gibberish is valuable information for a wide range of culturological topics, just like umberto eco (who is a brilliant semiotic and culturologist in first place who just happens to have a talent for putting down his reseach in belletristic form) deals with it in "the foucault pendulum".
we actually agree to a lot of things. i think you are right, we are talking past eachother. It is a really good post. i will try to match it, but not tonight. Thank you very much dipswitch, and i honestly mean that.
it would be nice to see those ranks described in FAQ link btw
ROBOTIC LIBERATION
Quote:
ROBOTIC LIBERATION
do you realise how dumb this makes you look in the light of dipswitch intelligent, good mannered, and informative post?
Just wondering?
i second mnemonix! :P
Dip dont loose balance or you will end up with your WHOLE head up his arse. But i guess he is above you then.
I was actually looking forward to what could have been an interresting debate. But i guess im not high enough on the brown nose scale... Do you give blowjobs too'???
Quote:
no we didnt. and yes in my opinion it would. cause i believe in a thing called scene hierarchy
I was actually looking forward to what could have been an interresting debate. But i guess im not high enough on the brown nose scale... Do you give blowjobs too'???
;)
o_õ you may wear a ninja outfit, you remain a pr0nstahr.
Cheap flattery will get you nowhere mate.
interesting to see at least how a discussion can escalate into something completely unrelated :)
message to all: this thread is terminated...
