How can I get started to making demos
category: general [glöplog]
Hi, I'm a C programmer and want to get started making demos. I know C, and some opengl with glsl. However I don't know what kind of "rules" are there to making demos. What kind of libraries should I use(sdl, glfw, for windowing? openal for sound?). Should I link these libraries statically or dynamically?
I have been doing some opengl with sdl before, but I don't know if it's ok to use these libraries with demos(in any case, what should I use for sound?).
Any kind of suggestions are welcome
I have been doing some opengl with sdl before, but I don't know if it's ok to use these libraries with demos(in any case, what should I use for sound?).
Any kind of suggestions are welcome
There are no rules. Just make something fun and make it work. BASS/FMOD for sound should suffice.
There are almost no rules. Nowadays, its ok to use libraries. For sound you could use Bass or FMod for example.
You can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't crash the box. Creativity is encouraged, and some people would prefer they be able to run it on their own computer at home but the informal rule seems to be it only has to run on the compo machine.
Just go for it and have fun. :)
Just go for it and have fun. :)
Some resources that come in mind to get you started...
DirectX
http://www.directxtutorial.com/LessonList.aspx?listid=9 (DX9 Tutorials)
after this you can later jump to dx11 and so on...
OpenGL
New/Modern Machines
http://www.opengl-tutorial.org/ (OpenGL)
https://open.gl/
Old Machines
http://nehe.gamedev.net/ (OpenGL NeHe Tutorials)
Libraries for handling sound/gfx
http://libcinder.org/ (C++ lib)
http://www.un4seen.com/ (Sound lib)
http://www.fmod.org/ (Sound lib)
https://www.libsdl.org/ (SDL lib)
IDEs
https://www.visualstudio.com/products/visual-studio-community-vs (VS Community Edition 2013 - Free full feature VS offer)
http://www.codeblocks.org/ (Codeblocks - Open Source IDE + GNU Compilers)
As for the rules everything is allowed in most parties as long as it doesn't crashes on the compo machine.
DirectX
http://www.directxtutorial.com/LessonList.aspx?listid=9 (DX9 Tutorials)
after this you can later jump to dx11 and so on...
OpenGL
New/Modern Machines
http://www.opengl-tutorial.org/ (OpenGL)
https://open.gl/
Old Machines
http://nehe.gamedev.net/ (OpenGL NeHe Tutorials)
Libraries for handling sound/gfx
http://libcinder.org/ (C++ lib)
http://www.un4seen.com/ (Sound lib)
http://www.fmod.org/ (Sound lib)
https://www.libsdl.org/ (SDL lib)
IDEs
https://www.visualstudio.com/products/visual-studio-community-vs (VS Community Edition 2013 - Free full feature VS offer)
http://www.codeblocks.org/ (Codeblocks - Open Source IDE + GNU Compilers)
As for the rules everything is allowed in most parties as long as it doesn't crashes on the compo machine.
Oh, and in case "pretty much no rules" wasn't enough (as stated here) feel free to just release what you have when you see fit. I've been told by others (and some probably see in others) that your first demo may suck. and the next one after that too. I've only got two official demos to my name and yes, they suck.
I'm not trying to say you will suck or that you do suck, just that everyone starts somewhere and if you decide not to release something until you're absolutely positive it's the best quality demo anyone will have seen [that year|month|whatever], you may not ever release something.
Anyway, that's about as motivational as I get here. I'm stuck in the "trying to practice what I preach" about that last paragraph. :)
I'm not trying to say you will suck or that you do suck, just that everyone starts somewhere and if you decide not to release something until you're absolutely positive it's the best quality demo anyone will have seen [that year|month|whatever], you may not ever release something.
Anyway, that's about as motivational as I get here. I'm stuck in the "trying to practice what I preach" about that last paragraph. :)
To you who say "There are no rules! Do what you want!" - that's actually not helpful advice at all, even though you seem to think so. ;)
To you who want to make demos: start by emulating a demo you already like, and through that experience you'll learn what your own style is.
To you who want to make demos: start by emulating a demo you already like, and through that experience you'll learn what your own style is.
go to a demoparty
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What kind of libraries should I use(sdl, glfw, for windowing? openal for sound?). Should I link these libraries statically or dynamically?
I have been doing some opengl with sdl before, but I don't know if it's ok to use these libraries with demos(in any case, what should I use for sound?).
1. It has to work on the compo machine.
2. All external libraries that are not part of the system count into the file size.
Anything else is pretty much up to you.
Just be creative and enjoy it :)
First make something, anything. Then improve.
Personally I start a lot of demos by selecting music, and forming a "concept" or at least a visual idea that follows the music. It helps a lot to narrow down the style, and give some kind of bounding box in which one could select colors, objects, textures etc. It could also assist in deciding what kind of effects your demo needs to have.
I think there are no golden rules, but I kinda liked "fake it till you make it". So for example, if you don't have a full blown 3d-engine, and editor and whatnot, why not use werkkzeug, or some other demotool so that you can start making demos right away.
I think there are no golden rules, but I kinda liked "fake it till you make it". So for example, if you don't have a full blown 3d-engine, and editor and whatnot, why not use werkkzeug, or some other demotool so that you can start making demos right away.
I love that he asked for technical help and everyone's going artsy hippie instead.
DO IT.
nuff said.
nuff said.
It´s easy, see here: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=60668
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Oh, and in case "pretty much no rules" wasn't enough (as stated here) feel free to just release what you have when you see fit. I've been told by others (and some probably see in others) that your first demo may suck. and the next one after that too. I've only got two official demos to my name and yes, they suck.
I'm not trying to say you will suck or that you do suck, just that everyone starts somewhere and if you decide not to release something until you're absolutely positive it's the best quality demo anyone will have seen [that year|month|whatever], you may not ever release something.
Anyway, that's about as motivational as I get here. I'm stuck in the "trying to practice what I preach" about that last paragraph. :)
This. So much this. I cringe every time I see my first releases...
first read everything that could be good knowledge to have.
then DO NOT read pouet at all.
make a demo! ;)
it´s just about doing it, not about "HOW?" or your self-belief in your UNknowledge...it´s about doing the best with the knowledge you gathered in my first sentence! ;) From there you´ll learn and will get better! :) Just do it! Get started and get it finished! No matter how bad it looks in the end, release it! Set yourself some Deadline, like "the next party i´ll attend...until it has to be finished!" ...and so the next party you´ll visit you´ll have your prod on the bigscreen! Afterwards you´ll get some feedback and you´ll know what to do, once you go back to my first sentence! ;)
then DO NOT read pouet at all.
make a demo! ;)
it´s just about doing it, not about "HOW?" or your self-belief in your UNknowledge...it´s about doing the best with the knowledge you gathered in my first sentence! ;) From there you´ll learn and will get better! :) Just do it! Get started and get it finished! No matter how bad it looks in the end, release it! Set yourself some Deadline, like "the next party i´ll attend...until it has to be finished!" ...and so the next party you´ll visit you´ll have your prod on the bigscreen! Afterwards you´ll get some feedback and you´ll know what to do, once you go back to my first sentence! ;)
ok, I got the basics(I think) "do whatever you want, but do it". That's ok so far, but this is more of a technical question: If I link against sdl2 and gl(think it's ok to link dynamically), does the size of these two libs count?
I mean, my exe is (for example)200kb, so the size of my demos is 200 + [insert sdl2 size here] + [insert libgl size here] ?
Thanks for all the info!
I mean, my exe is (for example)200kb, so the size of my demos is 200 + [insert sdl2 size here] + [insert libgl size here] ?
Thanks for all the info!
It´s a problem we´ve discussed a lot:
On every other platform you can access graphics-pipeline without any need of some external library...except PC! ;)
So we decided to not count it in, brought us the best 64K/4Ks ever...
But this only counts for the access to the graphics-pipeline! Feel free to use whatever is in them...for DirectX you have/(had?) some free Cubes/Spheres/Etc...but you dont want to use this shit anyway! We´ve seen it all! ;)
SDL: throw it away, do it on your own!
IQs Frameworks for small stuff
On every other platform you can access graphics-pipeline without any need of some external library...except PC! ;)
So we decided to not count it in, brought us the best 64K/4Ks ever...
But this only counts for the access to the graphics-pipeline! Feel free to use whatever is in them...for DirectX you have/(had?) some free Cubes/Spheres/Etc...but you dont want to use this shit anyway! We´ve seen it all! ;)
SDL: throw it away, do it on your own!
IQs Frameworks for small stuff
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If I link against sdl2 and gl(think it's ok to link dynamically), does the size of these two libs count?
Everything counts that is required to run the demo and is not part of the out-of-the-box system.
Of course, what is considered to be the part of the out-of-the-box system varies a bit; on Windows this generally means "latest drivers, latest Windows updates, latest DirectX redist", on Linux it means "apt-get full-upgrade", etc.
To clear up a common misconception... you don't have to care about file size at all, unless you're specifically interested in that aspect of demo making. Size-limited demos (known as 'intros') are a big part of the scene (and the one that gets all the coverage in ArsTechnica :-) ) but not the only one.
If that *is* what you're interested in, then you should aim for 64kb or less, as those are regarded as the 'interesting' size limits within the scene. Be aware that these have a steeper learning curve than regular demos, typically involving non-standard tricks and tools like software audio synthesis and dedicated compressors/linkers. But don't let that put you off!
If you're not specifically interested in making a demo for these size-limited categories, then don't worry about file size at all - it doesn't really make any difference whether your demo is 200kb or 20Mb. (If you go completely overboard, then at worst you'll just get reactions saying "200Mb for THIS?!?". You're free to ignore them. :-) )
If that *is* what you're interested in, then you should aim for 64kb or less, as those are regarded as the 'interesting' size limits within the scene. Be aware that these have a steeper learning curve than regular demos, typically involving non-standard tricks and tools like software audio synthesis and dedicated compressors/linkers. But don't let that put you off!
If you're not specifically interested in making a demo for these size-limited categories, then don't worry about file size at all - it doesn't really make any difference whether your demo is 200kb or 20Mb. (If you go completely overboard, then at worst you'll just get reactions saying "200Mb for THIS?!?". You're free to ignore them. :-) )
Smoke weed and play ping pong!
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That will probably be after the party, so that is problem to be dealt with at a later time anyway!(If you go completely overboard, then at worst you'll just get reactions saying "200Mb for THIS?!?". You're free to ignore them. :-) )
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go to a demoparty
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Quote:go to a demoparty
OP didn't ask "how to start getting drunk" :)
