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Are you just arguing with yourself or do you have a point that goes beyond your fringe opinions on how everyone in the demoscene should be doing their demos?

Everyone have such fringe opinions. Calm.

I support the way demoscene is doing it now - 4k, 64k, maybe 256k, un-restricted demos, videos/animation for truly unconstrained freedom.

At the same time I argue that some people do demos to actually impress others (and I know personally a few, and I see nothing wrong in that) and that some people judge demos by the impressive-factor (and size limit is one of the factor here), actually I would say it is still a key factor (also for general public, as you can see in demoscene charts/youtube views).

thanks for sharing what 'some people' like to do. any further anecdotal contributions you have on your heart?

Maali: I would say it's less anecdotal and personal than your opinions (i.e. you just said: to you size doesn't matter). I actually did some research and collected some common opinions on youtube (Debris, Elevated, Timeless) and demoscene charts. Many of them use phrases like "impressive for this size!" or "I don't know how they do it, but I'm impressed!" (in general).

so basically your research proves the youtube audience is just fucking stupid? :)

Maali: but yeah, it's my take what makes a difference between 64k, demo and non-realtime animation - and what is a perception of general public - if you have anything to add in this matter, even anecdotal or personal, I actually don't mind, and I hope you don't mind either.

Youtube audience varies for sure. I would go that far.

(I wouldn't go that far)

you can impress a tribe of monkeys with a giant inflatable banana, but for the zookeepers it is still a giant inflatable banana.

Sure, hence I was saying that it is indeed hard to impressed a person with a "trained eye" with something fake.

really? cos size-coded productions do nothing but faking

Maali: and they try to look bigger than they are so that's actually 2 things they do :D

Maali: I see your point - we should agree what do we mean by "faking".
So maybe let me describe what I mean by "fakery":
A 64k is "faking" or "cheating" if it has a big dependency on not very common libraries or 3rd party assets or in extreme case is downloading/streaming something from the internet.
And even saying that, I wouldn't completely discard such 64k, maybe it still has entertainment value or in fact show good faking skills (ironically), but it is just arguably less impressive.

Doubt it. But even then, "everyone" is not posting walls 'o text and trying to establish their sensibilities as law of the land. Which is good, unless you enjoy noise over signal debates that had been had so often before and with the same results too.

Tomaes: point taken, although most of my post are a defense of my original statement that apparently started a lot of controversy. Whether you believe me or not, I do not really plan or intended to bring controversy, so yeah, it's not a trolling attempt (at least not an deliberate one).

Your opinion did not create controversy.

Your crusade in convincing everyone else that you are right is. You act like some kind of demoscene police and it is obnoxious.

And the borderline spamming.

Geez, so bad I am? ;) I think I forgot to mention that people that do not follow ten commandments revelead by the great and the only prophet of the demoscene (which is me) should be handcuffed and thrown to dungeon of liars!

Or maybe it's my tone or assburgers? Who knows!

People make demos for a great variety of reasons. You never should assume that other people find their motivation from the same source than you.

So, it's pointless to say things like "people make demos because they want X". Talk about your X, not about the Xs of other people.

Opinions about your own motivations are always valid. Beware! Your own motivations!

So, if someone said: "I make demos to impress others!" Great! Good.

So, if someone said: "I make demos because is fun!" Great! Good.

So, if someone said: "No, people make demos because..." Wrong! Assumption alert!

So, if someone said: "They said blah blah but they really want to..." Wrong! Assumption alert!

Talk about you own opinions about what motivate you and listen openly about what other people says about why they make demos. And make your demos whatever the reason of doing demos you have!

@ham: in some sense I agree, but I still think there might be some subconscious or just general mechanism driving them which would be interesting to discover (at least for me) - it would be a guess/assumption, as I can only be sure about myself, of course, but that's why I think it might make sense to debate and hear different opinions "why".
That could also help (IMHO) to set out better rules for the competitions.
But from what I see, I doubt anyone is actually interested or maybe just not interested in debating about it with me, so let's be it ! ;P I have in fact other things to do.

oh yes! i make demos so i can impress my subconscious mechanisms!!!!!

Maali: might be, it doesn't bring money, it just eats your time and energy, it's a wonder ; P

@tomkh: If you really believe that subconscious causes can be stronger than conscious motivations then you must also believe that you can't be sure about the origin of your own motivation! Unless you think that your own mind can access all the content your own neural activity and every process in your brain could be perceived introspectively! :D

Besides, I don't believe that rules of competitions should be written on stone. I'm sure that soon we will see interactive demos (touchscreens, cameras, etc), random effects demos (with randomness inside some "direction") and procedural 4K video generators or whatever new thing that could arise.