Demo scene 2.0 reboot
category: general [glöplog]
Some say "the scene is dead". I disagree. It is transitioning and evolving. What we need are new challenges. I have a few suggestions to revive that so called "dying scene":
1- Make prods on platform that NEVER had any demos: Sega Saturn, Sega 32X, Sharp x6800, Atari 5200, Atari 7800, ColecoVision, Emerson Arcadia, Fujitsu FM Town Marty, SNK Neo Geo, Funtech Super Acan, Magnavox Odyssey, NEC PC-FX, Panasonic 3DO.
2- Make prods on platform with only a few demos: Apple II GS, Commodore 128, Nitendo Game cube, Nitendo 64, Mattel Intellivision, Neo Geo pocket, Atari Jaguar, Atari Lynx, Microsoft Xbox, Sony PlayStation 2, Sega Dreamcast (native Dreamcast demos that pushes the platform, not mere ports).
3- Create a new “bare metal” category for PC for demos that must boot from USB without any OS, just like on a console. No DOS, no Windows, no API libraries. Just your code and the PC. A technological platform must obviously be defined first (like a console): X86 and required extensions, shaders version and quantity, sound codec, amount of RAM, etc… If your PC meets or exceed the minimum hardware requirement in each department, the demo should boot and run at minimum 30FPS@720p and never below. 4 resolutions supported: 1024X768, 1280x720, 1680X1050, 1920X1080. 1 new PC standard per year, especially for the GPU specs. Maybe even 3 level of specs: low, med and high performance. 2015 specs should probably look like this:
Low specs:
64bit X86 CPU: 2 physical cores @ 3Ghz, 4MB L2 cache, SSE4
RAM: 4GB, 1333 Mhz, dual channel
Sound: Intel High Definition Audio compatible codec
GPU: GTX 750 ti reference: Shader model 5.0/DX11/OGL 4.5, 2GB RAM@85GB/s, 16 Gpixels/40
Gtexles fill rate, 1.3 Gflops.
Medium specs:
64bit X86 CPU: 4 physical cores @ 3.5Ghz, 6MB L2 cache, SSE4
RAM: 8GB, 1333Mhz, dual channel
Sound: Intel High Definition Audio compatible codec
GPU: GTX 660 reference: Shader model 5.0/DX11/OGL 4.5, 2GB RAM@140GB/s, 25 Gpixels/80
Gtexles fill rate, 1.8 Gflops.
High specs:
64bit X86 CPU: 4 physical cores @ 4Ghz, 8MB L2 cache, SSE4
RAM: 8GB 1666Mhz, dual channel
Sound: Intel High Definition Audio compatible codec
GPU: GTX 970 reference: Shader model 5.0/DX12/OGL 4.5, 4GB RAM@225GB/s, 65 Gpixels/109
Gtexles fill rate, 3.5 Gflops.
4- Create new demos mandatory categories. For a long time, the main categories have been 1KB, 4KB, 64KB and unlimited size demos. I propose 1 set of categories per technological generation for 8 bit, 16bit, 32bit and 64bit as follow:
8bit: 1KB, 4KB, 16KB, 32KB, 64KB, unlimited
16bit: 1KB, 4KB, 16KB, 64KB, 96KB, unlimited
32bit: 1KB, 4KB, 16KB, 64KB, 128KB, unlimited
64bit: 1KB, 4KB, 16KB, 64KB, 256KB, unlimited
The 16KB and 256KB for 64bit system should be very interesting. Currently, the 16KB section on Pouet have only ~100 demos across *ALL* platforms and only a handful of 256KB!
5- World record per platform for a specific effect. Example: Maximum concurrent animated dots on a C64. This concept could be extended and standardized across all platforms with a nearly endless list of record type and would show who codes the best and most efficient routines.
6- Create a unified judging system used across all demo parties to rate demos on visual, music, arts, technics, innovations and direction. Similar to the now defunct Scene Award, but at the individual party level and a score for each demo.
I really think a new standardized judging system and a new standard demos categories implemented across all parties would help create a renewed sense of competition. Add world records and demos on new or rarely used platforms and we could see a new booming interest in the demo scene.
1- Make prods on platform that NEVER had any demos: Sega Saturn, Sega 32X, Sharp x6800, Atari 5200, Atari 7800, ColecoVision, Emerson Arcadia, Fujitsu FM Town Marty, SNK Neo Geo, Funtech Super Acan, Magnavox Odyssey, NEC PC-FX, Panasonic 3DO.
2- Make prods on platform with only a few demos: Apple II GS, Commodore 128, Nitendo Game cube, Nitendo 64, Mattel Intellivision, Neo Geo pocket, Atari Jaguar, Atari Lynx, Microsoft Xbox, Sony PlayStation 2, Sega Dreamcast (native Dreamcast demos that pushes the platform, not mere ports).
3- Create a new “bare metal” category for PC for demos that must boot from USB without any OS, just like on a console. No DOS, no Windows, no API libraries. Just your code and the PC. A technological platform must obviously be defined first (like a console): X86 and required extensions, shaders version and quantity, sound codec, amount of RAM, etc… If your PC meets or exceed the minimum hardware requirement in each department, the demo should boot and run at minimum 30FPS@720p and never below. 4 resolutions supported: 1024X768, 1280x720, 1680X1050, 1920X1080. 1 new PC standard per year, especially for the GPU specs. Maybe even 3 level of specs: low, med and high performance. 2015 specs should probably look like this:
Low specs:
64bit X86 CPU: 2 physical cores @ 3Ghz, 4MB L2 cache, SSE4
RAM: 4GB, 1333 Mhz, dual channel
Sound: Intel High Definition Audio compatible codec
GPU: GTX 750 ti reference: Shader model 5.0/DX11/OGL 4.5, 2GB RAM@85GB/s, 16 Gpixels/40
Gtexles fill rate, 1.3 Gflops.
Medium specs:
64bit X86 CPU: 4 physical cores @ 3.5Ghz, 6MB L2 cache, SSE4
RAM: 8GB, 1333Mhz, dual channel
Sound: Intel High Definition Audio compatible codec
GPU: GTX 660 reference: Shader model 5.0/DX11/OGL 4.5, 2GB RAM@140GB/s, 25 Gpixels/80
Gtexles fill rate, 1.8 Gflops.
High specs:
64bit X86 CPU: 4 physical cores @ 4Ghz, 8MB L2 cache, SSE4
RAM: 8GB 1666Mhz, dual channel
Sound: Intel High Definition Audio compatible codec
GPU: GTX 970 reference: Shader model 5.0/DX12/OGL 4.5, 4GB RAM@225GB/s, 65 Gpixels/109
Gtexles fill rate, 3.5 Gflops.
4- Create new demos mandatory categories. For a long time, the main categories have been 1KB, 4KB, 64KB and unlimited size demos. I propose 1 set of categories per technological generation for 8 bit, 16bit, 32bit and 64bit as follow:
8bit: 1KB, 4KB, 16KB, 32KB, 64KB, unlimited
16bit: 1KB, 4KB, 16KB, 64KB, 96KB, unlimited
32bit: 1KB, 4KB, 16KB, 64KB, 128KB, unlimited
64bit: 1KB, 4KB, 16KB, 64KB, 256KB, unlimited
The 16KB and 256KB for 64bit system should be very interesting. Currently, the 16KB section on Pouet have only ~100 demos across *ALL* platforms and only a handful of 256KB!
5- World record per platform for a specific effect. Example: Maximum concurrent animated dots on a C64. This concept could be extended and standardized across all platforms with a nearly endless list of record type and would show who codes the best and most efficient routines.
6- Create a unified judging system used across all demo parties to rate demos on visual, music, arts, technics, innovations and direction. Similar to the now defunct Scene Award, but at the individual party level and a score for each demo.
I really think a new standardized judging system and a new standard demos categories implemented across all parties would help create a renewed sense of competition. Add world records and demos on new or rarely used platforms and we could see a new booming interest in the demo scene.
I don't see many contributions on your profile.
can't
.. find
words ..
*rolls off sofa*
.. find
words ..
*rolls off sofa*
I don't know what platforms Demoscene 2.0 will be based on, but Demoscene 3.0 will be based on sticks and stones.
Quote:
Create a new “bare metal” category for PC for demos that must boot from USB without any OS, just like on a console.
this cluelessness made me lol the most. :D
Ah, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
@maali: in a big box of stupidities that is probably the worst one :)
*mumbles something about drivers*
*mumbles something about drivers*
well, just use a random *nix live system as a start, put your demo into it and make sure it gets autolaunched after booting ;P
Lmao
Quote:
I don't know what platforms Demoscene 2.0 will be based on, but Demoscene 3.0 will be based on sticks and stones.
3DO Demo would rock. I wish I could spare time to 3-4 more platforms.
Also Sam Coupe. More Sam Coupe and the scene is saved.
dont forget all the great suggestions already made years ago here.
Quote:
a DEMOSCENER is from now on an ERA (Electronic Realtime Artist)
a DEMO is from now on an ERP (Electronic Realtime Production)
an INTRO is from now on a SLERP (Size Limited Electronic Realtime Production)
and the DEMOSCENE as a whole should be called SODA (Society Of Digital Art(ists))
Brilliant! :D
these kinds of threads make me want to quit the scene.
Quote:
these kinds of threads make me want to quit the scene.
Nah, a good laugh from time to time is really appreciated.
Also, love the Dead Scene Awards pic. :)
keep in mind that we are doing demos as a hobby and have a limited amount of time to spend on it.
Or maybe, I dunno, just do them for the fun of it.
lol
to everyone here: good job enforcing that no-one should put forward any ideas and new thoughts about our hobby. let's just stick with what we've known for 30 years and PLEASE do some more skateboarding videos!
personally I love the idea about an 'officially' recognized world record!
personally I love the idea about an 'officially' recognized world record!
Quote:
@maali: in a big box of stupidities that is probably the worst one :)
*mumbles something about drivers*
Well, all jokes aside, early PC games actually worked this way (although booting from a floppy obviously, not from a USB stick).
So there could be a 'bootblock' category for PCs, just like there is for Amiga.
As long as you stick to software rendering in CGA/EGA/VGA/VESA stuff, and audio with well-defined standards such as PC speaker, AdLib, SB/Pro/16, this could work.
In fact, my 1991 donut could easily be modified to boot without an OS.
scali: true, if we look at it from the early retro pc angle you've immersed yourself in as of late it's remotely reasonable. let's start building vesa demos with sb sound on 64-bit rigs with a gtx770 that run from the bootsector! *cough* a "retro" pc bootblock compo would be funny though.
bstrr: maybe take heed what pista said. and this isn't a "new idea", this is a manifestation of ocd :)
bstrr: maybe take heed what pista said. and this isn't a "new idea", this is a manifestation of ocd :)
Quote:
personally I love the idea about an 'officially' recognized world record!
If you have the time for it, nothing stops you from making "The Official bstrr Awards" where you give recognition to.. whatever.
sol, I know, but that's not the point. ramon has some suggestions and people starts mocking him rather than discussing the actual ideas.
"I don't see many contributions on your profile." - i bet dfox has done tons of demos as well.
"Dead scene awards" - better han the inbread scene.org awards anyway.
"this cluelessness made me lol the most." - .. is what they said about the earth orbiting the sun.
"these kinds of threads make me want to quit the scene." - pouet != scene. quit pouet instead.
and now i'm dragging this away from the subject as well :(
"I don't see many contributions on your profile." - i bet dfox has done tons of demos as well.
"Dead scene awards" - better han the inbread scene.org awards anyway.
"this cluelessness made me lol the most." - .. is what they said about the earth orbiting the sun.
"these kinds of threads make me want to quit the scene." - pouet != scene. quit pouet instead.
and now i'm dragging this away from the subject as well :(