Way to make people aware about the demoscene...
category: general [glöplog]
Demoscene outreach has been tried already, several times. Nobody will stop you from trying, but don't expect anything more than a 1% increase in demosceners in your town.
People don't find the demoscene; the demoscene finds people.
People don't find the demoscene; the demoscene finds people.
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Maybe we should air Hugi articles on Berlusconi's channels. Then we have controversial stuff on controversial channels :pAn idea about promoting the scene would be some Farbrausch prods appearing on Mediaset channels, owned by Berlusconi. Since this person is controversial, everything that happens about his activities gets a good media coverage :p
Proper hotel.
Hello F-Cycles : where can one contact you please ?
You have my email on our group's contact page.
Hope to hear from you. Thanks.
You have my email on our group's contact page.
Hope to hear from you. Thanks.
I guess one of the reasons why demoscene computer art is not widely popular is, because it rarely reflects much about the artists personality/ies or about society. It is "just" something nice to look at.
Most popular art is a reflection about the personality of an artist, the society in which the art was created or the environment in which the art is presented. A physical manifestation of the subjective "lens" of the artists, how he looks on himself and/or his environment. Which enables the consumer of the art to relate to it and use the art to reflect about himself, society or the environment too.
Demoscene art often lacks that, because it seems more to try to be a distraction from reality instead of beeing a reflection on reality. Thus the "normal" viewer has trouble to relate to it: "Yea, looks nice. But what does it have to do with me?"
Most popular art is a reflection about the personality of an artist, the society in which the art was created or the environment in which the art is presented. A physical manifestation of the subjective "lens" of the artists, how he looks on himself and/or his environment. Which enables the consumer of the art to relate to it and use the art to reflect about himself, society or the environment too.
Demoscene art often lacks that, because it seems more to try to be a distraction from reality instead of beeing a reflection on reality. Thus the "normal" viewer has trouble to relate to it: "Yea, looks nice. But what does it have to do with me?"
Salinga, very interesting post. What do mean when you say that demoscene art "tries to be a distraction from reality"?
Interesting. I've definitely always gravitated towards the demos where the "voice of the artist" really comes through strongly. One can definitely tell apart the Tarantinos and Picassos of the demoscene from the casual imitators. (at least, when you've spent enough time just watching prods)
As a coder, I'm not sure how much of a 'voice' I have, really.
I mean, my code mainly serves to play the music of someone else, and display the graphics of someone else.
My 'art' or 'personality' is in my code, which is not something that is directly visible to the audience.
At most it can be rated in an indirect sense, such as: "Ah, I've never seen this effect done before" or "This effect runs better than the same effect in demo X".
I think especially in the oldskool-oriented scene, there's basically just one type of personality really: people who want to push boundaries, and want to do things never done before, or do them better than anyone has ever done before. Perfectionists. Coder's coders.
I mean, my code mainly serves to play the music of someone else, and display the graphics of someone else.
My 'art' or 'personality' is in my code, which is not something that is directly visible to the audience.
At most it can be rated in an indirect sense, such as: "Ah, I've never seen this effect done before" or "This effect runs better than the same effect in demo X".
I think especially in the oldskool-oriented scene, there's basically just one type of personality really: people who want to push boundaries, and want to do things never done before, or do them better than anyone has ever done before. Perfectionists. Coder's coders.
scali, I think you should make it a goal that the qualities and choices you make in your code shine through the demo playing in the end.
In my opinion, the problem with demoscene is that unless you understand the limits (or at least have a vague idea) that are being working with (and the average person doesn't) you will probably start wondering why each demo matters.
demoscene = mainly competitions of code, music and art (together art or music-video) with or without drunken sceners. or like c64-scene: technical programming, 8-bit music and art skills with restricted colors: to show of ones skills in any category. Or someone find the demoscene just an curiosity and dont participate at all.
I don't think you can explain the demoscene in a few words. Those who are curious and are listening either might find it interesting and want to know more, or might find it boring and just dont care
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Show them a demo (even better if you created one youself). A little bit history about the 8-bit era and how computers have evolved would work aside. Unless you dont think history is important. Mindcandy 1 has nice introduction by Trixter of Hornet to that. * When one would be able to put graphics on the screen, syncronize with music etc. one would be able to show off ones skills (which was very true back when computers where slower than they are today), im not sure if that's as important today. Just on specific platforms like C64 and Amiga. If you want to explain in detail about every category that would take some time, like procedural graphics, size-limit intros, computer platforms et al.I wanted to start this thread talking about ways to get people be aware about the demoscene...
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I discovered the demoscene of cracktros in the late 80's and reports from demoparties in magazines at the early 90's. I think I was twelve years old when I discovered and understood what a demoparty was. I only visited one ten years later.Maybe you got an original story of how you discover the demoscene?
I don't think you can explain the demoscene in a few words. Those who are curious and are listening either might find it interesting and want to know more, or might find it boring and just dont care
I forgot to mention that a TV-program which are mainly focused on demos and demoscene culture would be nice, but there are not many of them and they happen every 5-10 years or so. So its not very out there...
On the internet as someone mentioned, we have scene.org, pouet, etc. We have Scenesat does a great job showing the ambience of a demoparty and the competitions played there, with streaming etc. There are not that many commercial programs about the hacking culture that I know of (maybe someone tell me otherwise), but I am not that aware of it. If the common man or woman is not aware of the hacker-culture, why would they be more aware of the demoscene culture? It's not that easy I think...
Also as one sees one can reach out to people by having facebook page about different scenes. Maybe its a little bit easier if you have friends or aquantances that are member of a demopage on fb, that someone would be curious and learn more about what it is and join that page. Hell, in the 80's and early 90's not many people had modems and the internet was not as wide as today. One could find the demoscene by cracktros and mailswapping etc. or if you had a friend that happened to download demos or even was in a demogroup. It was a world out there, and it has become closer by the internet.
Last point: Make people visit demoparties (if they want to).
On the internet as someone mentioned, we have scene.org, pouet, etc. We have Scenesat does a great job showing the ambience of a demoparty and the competitions played there, with streaming etc. There are not that many commercial programs about the hacking culture that I know of (maybe someone tell me otherwise), but I am not that aware of it. If the common man or woman is not aware of the hacker-culture, why would they be more aware of the demoscene culture? It's not that easy I think...
Also as one sees one can reach out to people by having facebook page about different scenes. Maybe its a little bit easier if you have friends or aquantances that are member of a demopage on fb, that someone would be curious and learn more about what it is and join that page. Hell, in the 80's and early 90's not many people had modems and the internet was not as wide as today. One could find the demoscene by cracktros and mailswapping etc. or if you had a friend that happened to download demos or even was in a demogroup. It was a world out there, and it has become closer by the internet.
Last point: Make people visit demoparties (if they want to).
Yeah, coders and techies are mostly the people who can totally love demos. It's no different than watching a youtube prerendered video for others, even the theme of most demos might be too abstract for many people. While we see a random potato shit rotating and we are like "Wow, phong shading in a 486, very smooth!". Definitely a coder's world.
Why do you want to raise awareness?
As most people mentioned already, there isn't a very strong reason for other people to be aware. There are no commercial aspects. There's a degree of technological understanding required to appreciate the demoscene. The demoscene isn't very influential outside of the demoscene community. Who cares?
As most people mentioned already, there isn't a very strong reason for other people to be aware. There are no commercial aspects. There's a degree of technological understanding required to appreciate the demoscene. The demoscene isn't very influential outside of the demoscene community. Who cares?
I remember stumbling upon a small demoscene corner in Cebit setup by the Outreach crowd.
Whatever happened to that?
Whatever happened to that?
Why not make people aware of the PROBLEMS of the demoscene?
That's about time.
That's about time.
The pixelart and chiptune aesthetic is done to death in modern games and music, often badly. People are familiar enough with it to appreciate where the scene took those aesthetics years ago, and where it's taking them now. Authenticity matters, and right now that 8bit stuff is hot nostalgia fodder. Just post NES/SNES/Megadrive demos on gaming sites, people don't necessarily understand what the point of what they're seeing is but they still enjoy it.
I think the scene has a bit of an image problem that sites like demozoo are addressing. It needs to be more open and accessible to new people who have seen the whole indie game thing explode and want to show off their skills or connect with other people without necessarily making a whole game. This is part of the origins of the demoscene, and it should recover some of that because there are people out there who would take an interest.
I think the scene has a bit of an image problem that sites like demozoo are addressing. It needs to be more open and accessible to new people who have seen the whole indie game thing explode and want to show off their skills or connect with other people without necessarily making a whole game. This is part of the origins of the demoscene, and it should recover some of that because there are people out there who would take an interest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden_Two
Farewell Demoscene
Other than that, some people can have a regular impact.
demoscene musicians playing live
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Walden Two embraces the proposition that the behavior of organisms, including humans, is determined by environmental variables, and that systematically altering environmental variables can generate a sociocultural system that very closely approximates utopia.
Farewell Demoscene
Other than that, some people can have a regular impact.
demoscene musicians playing live
@9M4N: Thread derailed alert! I read Walden Two it a long time ago (in 1992 or 1993) and I remember that was a very good novel. However, I do not agree with the pessimistic and malleable view of mankind of Burrhus Skinner, the author. His radical behaviorist theories are most suited for dogs and pigeons than humans, in my opinion.
We are demosceners not because of our past but in spite of our past!
Yes, maybe the BASIC manuals of our 8 bit computer provided a little impulse but nowadays there are lots of information at the points of the fingers of everybody and, you see, people interested in programming are a minority, as always!
Back in the golden days, most people were just gamers who learned only a few BASIC commands. Guess what? Yeah, the ones necessary to load a game.
@Intersecutor: You are right. There are lots of people who could enjoy the demoscene (and probably they already know about some demos) and perhaps even join us if they knew how to.
It is a difficult task, however. Our main problem is that we live in the era of the too many possibilities and our potential future demoscener seems to prefer other most appealing and lucrative ways to show his/her talent.
Maybe we should concentrate in make more demos and advertise our great demoparties and our awesome and friendly community to the world. But it's not that precisely what we are doing? Are we doing it wrong? Do we need to choose another platforms like mobile? Do we need to increase our presence in social networks? I don't know. I just wanna do more stuff for Amiga.
We are demosceners not because of our past but in spite of our past!
Yes, maybe the BASIC manuals of our 8 bit computer provided a little impulse but nowadays there are lots of information at the points of the fingers of everybody and, you see, people interested in programming are a minority, as always!
Back in the golden days, most people were just gamers who learned only a few BASIC commands. Guess what? Yeah, the ones necessary to load a game.
@Intersecutor: You are right. There are lots of people who could enjoy the demoscene (and probably they already know about some demos) and perhaps even join us if they knew how to.
It is a difficult task, however. Our main problem is that we live in the era of the too many possibilities and our potential future demoscener seems to prefer other most appealing and lucrative ways to show his/her talent.
Maybe we should concentrate in make more demos and advertise our great demoparties and our awesome and friendly community to the world. But it's not that precisely what we are doing? Are we doing it wrong? Do we need to choose another platforms like mobile? Do we need to increase our presence in social networks? I don't know. I just wanna do more stuff for Amiga.
The demoscene reminds me a bit of other hobbies like collecting stamps or ham radio. They sprang to life and their communities grew at a time where everything aligned perfectly for them: Technology, society, culture. Now these factors have changed, the community dwindles, grows older and has problems getting new blood interested in their hobby. And not only new blood, but especially young(er) people, as those are better at keeping a scene alive, because they usually have more time and energy to pursue their hobbies.
With that in mind, I doubt we will have much success in getting outside people interested in the demoscene with oldschool platforms, as young people grew up in a completely different social context and not many will understand our fascinations with dead metal. (I'm coding oldschool demos and thus am guilty of that too, although that is about to change, but then I'm also an old fart...).
Why modern PC demos don't seem to attract more outside interest I don't know, but I also know that the stamp collecting and ham radio sceners are asking themselves similar questions. :-P How demos have to change (and whether that's possible at all) to become attractive again in the social context of modern young people is an interesting question.
Maybe demo makers should leave their comfort zone and experiment more, to find out how to become interesting again?
With that in mind, I doubt we will have much success in getting outside people interested in the demoscene with oldschool platforms, as young people grew up in a completely different social context and not many will understand our fascinations with dead metal. (I'm coding oldschool demos and thus am guilty of that too, although that is about to change, but then I'm also an old fart...).
Why modern PC demos don't seem to attract more outside interest I don't know, but I also know that the stamp collecting and ham radio sceners are asking themselves similar questions. :-P How demos have to change (and whether that's possible at all) to become attractive again in the social context of modern young people is an interesting question.
Maybe demo makers should leave their comfort zone and experiment more, to find out how to become interesting again?
We want demoscene outreach, because of our human nature to share stuff we like with other people, and our strive to find like-minded people. That's a pretty good reason to do outreach.
That said, like-minded people are rare. If we try to categorize the demoscene, I'd say that a higher-level category would be digital arts, and sibling categories would be (academical) computer science, cinema/movie industry, games industry, amongst others. The real question is, if we want to attract people from those categories.
Most academics will freak out if they see the hacks that we coders do to fake everything together to look cool.
Most artists doing films won't see a benefit for them in the demoscene, becaue they can reach a larger audience and profit somewhere else
Perhaps the game developers would be the most related category, but they already know about the demoscene, and many sceners are working there. Outreaching there would be either pointless, or addressing gamers, which we explicitly don't want.
Journalism and media coverage is also a very uncanny topic, see the recent episode at evoke 2014.
Summing everything up, the demoscene is and will remain a small and niche culture which will be found by people looking for it. Trying to invert this process will not bring us any further.
In my opinion, our main effort must be focused on improving stuff on the inside. The worst thing that can happen to the demoscene is if interested newcomers get scared away after their first visit to a demoparty. Since this would be a completely different topic that merits its own discussion thread (gender equality, public exposure to explicit sexual content, family friendliness, and so on...), I'll just leave this statement as it is.
Cheers!
That said, like-minded people are rare. If we try to categorize the demoscene, I'd say that a higher-level category would be digital arts, and sibling categories would be (academical) computer science, cinema/movie industry, games industry, amongst others. The real question is, if we want to attract people from those categories.
Most academics will freak out if they see the hacks that we coders do to fake everything together to look cool.
Most artists doing films won't see a benefit for them in the demoscene, becaue they can reach a larger audience and profit somewhere else
Perhaps the game developers would be the most related category, but they already know about the demoscene, and many sceners are working there. Outreaching there would be either pointless, or addressing gamers, which we explicitly don't want.
Journalism and media coverage is also a very uncanny topic, see the recent episode at evoke 2014.
Summing everything up, the demoscene is and will remain a small and niche culture which will be found by people looking for it. Trying to invert this process will not bring us any further.
In my opinion, our main effort must be focused on improving stuff on the inside. The worst thing that can happen to the demoscene is if interested newcomers get scared away after their first visit to a demoparty. Since this would be a completely different topic that merits its own discussion thread (gender equality, public exposure to explicit sexual content, family friendliness, and so on...), I'll just leave this statement as it is.
Cheers!
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Why not make people aware of the PROBLEMS of the demoscene?
Yeah.
- Too many crazies.
- Demoscene kidnaps you.
- ...
- Profit.
I drank a red bull again. How did I liked this taste?
Also, now I bath every day.
Also, now I bath every day.