Is It Worth It?
category: general [glöplog]
obviously coming in today and starting from scratch will leave you at a technical disadvantage, but the technical side is only a part of the battle - creatively you'll have the major advantage of not being afflicted with 20+ years of stylistic in-breeding. :)
dont give that advantage up by copying other demos - be fresh, enjoy that the technical requirements aren't half as high as you think, and get on with it.
dont give that advantage up by copying other demos - be fresh, enjoy that the technical requirements aren't half as high as you think, and get on with it.
Quote:
Making anything really impressive like State of the Art or Dope would be practically impossible today, because the multi-billion games industry has much bigger resources.
Namedroppig two demos from 1992 and 1995 that (at their time) were nowhere near game industry concerns or aesthetics is a stupid move. Stop doing that, okay?
Disregard anything that yzi said about demo poetry.
Quote:
Making anything really impressive like State of the Art or Dope would be practically impossible today
err, why? lying is just as effective today as it was back then.. =)
Quote:
Is it worth learning how to make a demo?
If you ask this question beforehand the answer is no. If you ask this question after many attempts the answer is yes.
First, do the demo.
Then, ask the question.
Then, ask the question.
Quote:
Is It Worth It?
Yes.
Quote:
Is It Worth It?
From someone who has just released his first demo (albeit oldskool) at Revision: Yes, it's worth it, absolutely - especially if you go to demo parties. Totally different party experience with a demo than without. Plus the process of planning, learning and then creating the demo is tons of fun, regardless of its placement in the compo at the end.
I had the same reservations as you, so I started with an oldskool demo where the bar seemed to be lower. Now I'm hooked and will go for the PC. Even if my first PC prod will place last, I know I will have fun!
It's worth it if you enjoy making demos. But you won't know that until you try.
Don't needlessly raise the bar for yourself. Your first demo doesn't need to be of the higest quality. Just make something, release it, learn from your mistakes and start working on the next one.
If everyone would always only release the ultimate quality they strife for, the scene would probably be dead. And yes, I know that quality should come before quantity, but it should still remain somewhat balanced.
None of the demos I've made are necessarily high quality, or technically impressive. I did put a lot of time into the them, and I sincerely enjoyed making them though, so it was definitely worth it.
And of course nothing ever beats watching your own production on a large screen with 700 drunk sceners cheering.
Don't needlessly raise the bar for yourself. Your first demo doesn't need to be of the higest quality. Just make something, release it, learn from your mistakes and start working on the next one.
If everyone would always only release the ultimate quality they strife for, the scene would probably be dead. And yes, I know that quality should come before quantity, but it should still remain somewhat balanced.
None of the demos I've made are necessarily high quality, or technically impressive. I did put a lot of time into the them, and I sincerely enjoyed making them though, so it was definitely worth it.
And of course nothing ever beats watching your own production on a large screen with 700 drunk sceners cheering.
Quote:
Disregard anything that yzi said
ftfy
Also, make horse demos and win first place!
I was of course trolling a bit. As you see, there are many opinions, and you can't please everyone. Do your own thing and release it. Releasing is the really important part, maybe the only important one. Haters gonna hate, and thumbs are going to be whatever way, but that's not important.
To the guy who didn't get it about State of the Art: it was jaw-droppingly impressive. Games weren't, at the time. Today big demos have a hard time impressing me, except for size limited intros.
To the guy who didn't get it about State of the Art: it was jaw-droppingly impressive. Games weren't, at the time. Today big demos have a hard time impressing me, except for size limited intros.
do be do be do be do
"I will do it" shouldn't be so high. Of course I will do it. I will do it.. tomorrow!
"I will do it" shouldn't be so high. Of course I will do it. I will do it.. tomorrow!
RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE! (figured it'd be a lesser sin to revive a freshly deceased thread)
Anyway, shamelessly plugging an audio postmortem of sorts for a 16K intro, written from a newcomer's perspective so I figured it'd be at home here. The write-up isn't too heavy on technical detail but does touch some stuff here and there while being mostly about how one goes about putting something together from scratch with some anecdotes.
As for the original question: yes, it is worth it. Do it.
Anyway, shamelessly plugging an audio postmortem of sorts for a 16K intro, written from a newcomer's perspective so I figured it'd be at home here. The write-up isn't too heavy on technical detail but does touch some stuff here and there while being mostly about how one goes about putting something together from scratch with some anecdotes.
As for the original question: yes, it is worth it. Do it.
I joined "the scene" around '93 and made my first public appearance in a release around '94. Here are my thoughts (from back then):
Indeed. That was also a fact back in 1994.
This was also a fact back in 1994. Perhaps not "decades" but "quite a long time".
Oh. Has it? As I recall some of the 1990s-"top notch" teams actually spend months/years on developing new stuff for new demos.
Rotating cubes were impressive in 1970. Not 1990s :-)
---
Ok, so my point is: All the thoughts you have about "it was easier back in the OLD days" are not entirely through. If you ask me, I'd say it's easier to get into "demo coding" today compared to in the 1990s (do a google search on "demo coding tutorial" and you're ready to go).
I agree that the focus has changed in demos. Today it's more focused on "art" and in the "old days" it was more "technology".
Quote:
Many sceners have been making demos for quite a long time.
Indeed. That was also a fact back in 1994.
Quote:
Not surprisingly, the quality of prods have also steady risen over the pass decades.
This was also a fact back in 1994. Perhaps not "decades" but "quite a long time".
Quote:
The time it takes to make a decent prod as wells as has also risen.
Oh. Has it? As I recall some of the 1990s-"top notch" teams actually spend months/years on developing new stuff for new demos.
Quote:
The high bar is great for experienced sceners but arguably discourages total newbies (like me) from making demos. A rotating cube is neither impressive nor pioneering in today's context.
Rotating cubes were impressive in 1970. Not 1990s :-)
---
Ok, so my point is: All the thoughts you have about "it was easier back in the OLD days" are not entirely through. If you ask me, I'd say it's easier to get into "demo coding" today compared to in the 1990s (do a google search on "demo coding tutorial" and you're ready to go).
I agree that the focus has changed in demos. Today it's more focused on "art" and in the "old days" it was more "technology".
That was really interesting :)
I would say it all depends on which platform you want to target and which level.
Of course doing a spinning cube in OpenGL on a modern PC isn't that hard. Doing a similar thing on C64 of course requires more effort.
For me personally I invested *lots* of time in our last demo (TBL demo at Revision 2014) because I rewrote all the rendering code that had been used in the previous demos from scratch because I want to cram out more performance from our target CPU (060) but I'm pretty sure most people will not go to such lengths.
I say: start small, get something up and running and go from there. Set a achievable deadline (this is more important than you think) and work towards that. Releasing at some demo party is likely a good deadline and a motivator as well.
Of course doing a spinning cube in OpenGL on a modern PC isn't that hard. Doing a similar thing on C64 of course requires more effort.
For me personally I invested *lots* of time in our last demo (TBL demo at Revision 2014) because I rewrote all the rendering code that had been used in the previous demos from scratch because I want to cram out more performance from our target CPU (060) but I'm pretty sure most people will not go to such lengths.
I say: start small, get something up and running and go from there. Set a achievable deadline (this is more important than you think) and work towards that. Releasing at some demo party is likely a good deadline and a motivator as well.
Well, a year ago I have released my first demo. I had no background in graphics programming, I had to learn everything from scratch and it toke it's time.
Was it worth it? Totally, as a person how enjoys algorithms and programming I have enjoyed every minute of it.
Plus, I really feel that being able to program and interact with modern GPUs is a truly important programming skill.
just my two cents...
Was it worth it? Totally, as a person how enjoys algorithms and programming I have enjoyed every minute of it.
Plus, I really feel that being able to program and interact with modern GPUs is a truly important programming skill.
just my two cents...
Quote:
Is it worth learning to play a guitar?
Many people have been playing guitars for quite a long time. Not surprisingly, the standard of guitar playing have also steady risen over the past decades. The time it takes to start playing decently has also risen. The high bar is great for experienced guitarists but arguably discourages total newbies (like me) from learning to play a guitar. A "Smoke on the Water" riff is neither impressive nor pioneering in today's context. This problem is only made difficult by the increasing lack of resources targeted towards amateurs. I do acknowledge that learning how to play a guitar well is hard, but no one wants to play badly either.
I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this subject.
Ironically... My non-demo making guilt is purely down the fact I've been playing lots of guitar, including learning how to repair them.
In creative bursts over the last couple years I put a lot of time and effort into learning (and relearning) demo related stuff, towards making a library (some would called it an engine but i wont as for one, its not general purpose) that would enable to me to jump start 'new' demo/effect ideas.
But I only have so much free time, and right now the guitar is winning out :(
