kinda demographic research :)
category: offtopic [glöplog]
a provocative phenomenon! sounds like a rap group! *beatbox*
maali: Since the actual definition of phenomenon is "something observable", yes - yes we all are. :)
rudi: You described the scene as "a global phenomenon" - that's the definition of big and wide-spread.
okkie: It feels like the scene is entering the world of Linux distros that are about to be discontinued. All that remains is the once maintainers arguing over minute details which couldn't possibly matter.
..and of course, a few people still push updates to the repo on a regular basis, but these are mostly just ignored because people are hung up on typos in the commit messages instead.
rudi: You described the scene as "a global phenomenon" - that's the definition of big and wide-spread.
okkie: It feels like the scene is entering the world of Linux distros that are about to be discontinued. All that remains is the once maintainers arguing over minute details which couldn't possibly matter.
..and of course, a few people still push updates to the repo on a regular basis, but these are mostly just ignored because people are hung up on typos in the commit messages instead.
let's fork like it's dose2!
Maybe the source of the demoscene is... disking the tapes. In the USA you didn't need to do this, you could buy either media.
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No, it wouldn't - didn't you read what I just wrote? :) It's not international, global, world-wide or even "wide-spread". It's a very small and closed community, firmly placed near its European roots.
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Now: do people WATCH demos from all around the world? Sure, but even then it's almost a 1:1 match with the countries that has an active producing demoscene community.
I agree with these quotes from gloom. They match my own impression.
In that case, I retract everything.
I read some interesting comments at Scenial.PL that could be somewhat
offensive to certain people about the subject. Someone came up with the theory
about connection between Sociolism and Demoscene. According to that
individual in "Sociolist" countries like Finland, Norway there is nothing to do but
make demos.
But you can't take Scenial.pl too seriously. Akira is soo out of date of that's going on on demoscene.
offensive to certain people about the subject. Someone came up with the theory
about connection between Sociolism and Demoscene. According to that
individual in "Sociolist" countries like Finland, Norway there is nothing to do but
make demos.
But you can't take Scenial.pl too seriously. Akira is soo out of date of that's going on on demoscene.
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Someone came up with the theory
about connection between Sociolism and Demoscene.
Utter horse shit of course.
THANKS OBAMA
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But you can't take Scenial.pl too seriously. Akira is soo out of date of that's going on on demoscene.
And, apparently, reality.
well, Akira stuck in the early 90's.
Gargaj,
that's why we have explosion of those great demoparties in the US, there is nothing else to do but make demos ;]
that's why we have explosion of those great demoparties in the US, there is nothing else to do but make demos ;]
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in the US
Explains so much about you Forcer.
ringofyre,
it explains only one thing, how stereotypical you really are.
it explains only one thing, how stereotypical you really are.
There's a reason many Aussies (and Poms) refer to you guys as "Sepos" and it's not just the rhyming slang.
Threatened anyone online recently?
Threatened anyone online recently?
@gloom
You stated in this thread :
*over-analytical : a programmer can never bee too over-anaytical imho.
*drug-induced : no.
*brain fart : meaning temporary mental lapse (Oxford dictionnary) - I experienced first-hand everything I typed in my post and hence cannot be faulted as lapsing or making things up. You have the right to disagree and although I refuse dwelling into ad hominem insults like some, my point of view and legitimacy is worth yours at the very least in these Great Internet Times where everyone claims to have invented everything.
You stated in this thread :
I, for one, strongly disagree with your unilateral statement that the demoscene has its historical roots in Europe. I even claim the opposite although being European myself. As others have hinted to you, dismissing other regions of the globe is disrespectful.
You also stated in the Demoscene Outreach Tour 2007 thread :
That some scener could very well have been myself, but it's not because I would be against your DOG initiative, it is because I judge you convey flawed ideas and false truths about the history of the demoscene and the scene in general to other clueless communities - in this instance the professional North-American cgi companies.
You felt at some point someone needed to know about what you cared for and that is all fine and dandy. In return some people like myself feel you and others sceners growing in adulthood and attempting to capitalize on the scene need to know that no means - be it trolling, pouet-cloning, old groupname registrations, general history distortion or online bullying through sarcasm, irony, irc kicking or banning - will change a thing to the implied pivot of this thread : nationalist pride is okay but not blindness :
To make a long story short, and in my case a 30 years (1985-2014) long story : it won't happen. Not this way, not today, not tomorrow. Someone has to take a stand and I speak only for myself, not the several thousand sceners who retired and are too busy in bills to pay attention to recent mystifications here and there.
You stated in this thread :
Quote:
Baudsurfer: boy that post read like an over-analytical, drug-induced brain-fart.
*over-analytical : a programmer can never bee too over-anaytical imho.
*drug-induced : no.
*brain fart : meaning temporary mental lapse (Oxford dictionnary) - I experienced first-hand everything I typed in my post and hence cannot be faulted as lapsing or making things up. You have the right to disagree and although I refuse dwelling into ad hominem insults like some, my point of view and legitimacy is worth yours at the very least in these Great Internet Times where everyone claims to have invented everything.
You stated in this thread :
Quote:
No, it wouldn't - didn't you read what I just wrote? :) It's not international, global, world-wide or even "wide-spread". It's a very small and closed community, firmly placed near its European roots.
I, for one, strongly disagree with your unilateral statement that the demoscene has its historical roots in Europe. I even claim the opposite although being European myself. As others have hinted to you, dismissing other regions of the globe is disrespectful.
You also stated in the Demoscene Outreach Tour 2007 thread :
Quote:
tomsawyer: The last big one was 20 years ago I believe. :) But I just have to ask, even though you used a smily up there; what is it you find so bad about doing outreach? I'm asking because once in a while I meet some scener who is really against telling other people about the demoscene and I just don't get why it's a bad thing. :) added on the 2007-10-31 16:02:06 by gloom
That some scener could very well have been myself, but it's not because I would be against your DOG initiative, it is because I judge you convey flawed ideas and false truths about the history of the demoscene and the scene in general to other clueless communities - in this instance the professional North-American cgi companies.
You felt at some point someone needed to know about what you cared for and that is all fine and dandy. In return some people like myself feel you and others sceners growing in adulthood and attempting to capitalize on the scene need to know that no means - be it trolling, pouet-cloning, old groupname registrations, general history distortion or online bullying through sarcasm, irony, irc kicking or banning - will change a thing to the implied pivot of this thread : nationalist pride is okay but not blindness :
Quote:
Any nation claiming historical precedence over another in the scene often results of clueless chauvinism mixed with a lack of historical knowledge depth.
To make a long story short, and in my case a 30 years (1985-2014) long story : it won't happen. Not this way, not today, not tomorrow. Someone has to take a stand and I speak only for myself, not the several thousand sceners who retired and are too busy in bills to pay attention to recent mystifications here and there.
Sociolist. Interesting theory. Sociolist. LOL
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*over-analytical : a programmer can never bee too over-anaytical imho.
I am overanalytical.
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I experienced first-hand everything I typed in my post and hence cannot be faulted as lapsing or making things up. You have the right to disagree and although I refuse dwelling into ad hominem insults
It's interesting how you quote one logical fallacy in one sentence but commit an even bigger one in the preceding one. :)
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I, for one, strongly disagree with your unilateral statement that the demoscene has its historical roots in Europe. I even claim the opposite although being European myself.
Unfortunately, a little thing called "historical evidence" is against you there, my friend.
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As others have hinted to you, dismissing other regions of the globe is disrespectful.
It would indeed be, if that was what I did, which it wasn't. Please just read what I wrote instead of making things up.
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That some scener could very well have been myself, but it's not because I would be against your DOG initiative, it is because I judge you convey flawed ideas and false truths about the history of the demoscene and the scene in general to other clueless communities - in this instance the professional North-American cgi companies.
You felt at some point someone needed to know about what you cared for and that is all fine and dandy. In return some people like myself feel you and others sceners growing in adulthood and attempting to capitalize on the scene need to know that no means - be it trolling, pouet-cloning, old groupname registrations, general history distortion or online bullying through sarcasm, irony, irc kicking or banning - will change a thing to the implied pivot of this thread : nationalist pride is okay but not blindness :
I would answer this if I had the slightest idea of what it means.
First "crack intros" or more like screens (on Apple II that is), were North American though?
@gloom
Leaving out sadly other unknown otherwise unpublicized sources that would require more rigourous analysis than this thread can provide (Serpent mentionned some Apple II cracks just before for example) :
Fish disks (1985-1994) : USA
from http://fish.back2roots.org
1985
Red Sector was born in the spring of 1985, when Bill Best, Kangol Kid and Greg decide to join forces under this label. At this time, the group's members were spread over America and Canada.
from http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Red_Sector_Inc.
Quartex (1988) aka WoW : 14 French, 3 Australians, 1 Canadian, 3 Danish, 1 Finnish
"Quartex mainly survived through its U.S. BBS's and a few EU members notably in France (Hoan...), Germany (Red Rocks...), UK (The Jester...)."
from http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Quartex_(old)
Quote:
Quote
I, for one, strongly disagree with your unilateral statement that the demoscene has its historical roots in Europe. I even claim the opposite although being European myself.
Unfortunately, a little thing called "historical evidence" is against you there, my friend.
Leaving out sadly other unknown otherwise unpublicized sources that would require more rigourous analysis than this thread can provide (Serpent mentionned some Apple II cracks just before for example) :
Fish disks (1985-1994) : USA
from http://fish.back2roots.org
1985
Red Sector was born in the spring of 1985, when Bill Best, Kangol Kid and Greg decide to join forces under this label. At this time, the group's members were spread over America and Canada.
from http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Red_Sector_Inc.
Quartex (1988) aka WoW : 14 French, 3 Australians, 1 Canadian, 3 Danish, 1 Finnish
"Quartex mainly survived through its U.S. BBS's and a few EU members notably in France (Hoan...), Germany (Red Rocks...), UK (The Jester...)."
from http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Quartex_(old)
*sigh*
You can cherry-pick individual productions as much as you'd like, but sadly that's completely irrelevant. We were talking about the demoscene _COMMUNITY_. If you do in fact have some actual evidence to contest my statement that it is largely a European thing, feel free to present it.
PS: kudos for using a group where 18 of its 22 members were European as evidence of the demoscene not being European in origin. Well done Sir. :)
You can cherry-pick individual productions as much as you'd like, but sadly that's completely irrelevant. We were talking about the demoscene _COMMUNITY_. If you do in fact have some actual evidence to contest my statement that it is largely a European thing, feel free to present it.
PS: kudos for using a group where 18 of its 22 members were European as evidence of the demoscene not being European in origin. Well done Sir. :)
PS2: even more kudos for referencing cracking groups when we're talking about the demoscene, which is an off-shoot of that particular subculture.
@gloom
- the PD Fish Disks were not about cracking at all ;
- difficult to separate the three subcultures :
--the demoscene culture grew on the cracking scene ;
-- the cracking scene grew on the phreak scene.
I don't think the demoscene started with Future Crew in 1993. Even there French group Triton had done same quality flybys on Amiga imho (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_Productions)
In cracking domains :
when talking of US/Canadian RSi above , it was all but a cracking group : it was a phreaking group. Only when US FBI busts started did it welcome the cracking scene.
Indeed it did evolve partly into a demoscene group afterwards.
In phreaking domains :
*Cap'n Crunch (John Draper) [1971] blueboxing phreaker : California/US
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_box & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Draper
* Emmanuel Goldstein (Eric Corley) [1984] /w Spot the fed NYC/US
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600:_The_Hacker_Quarterly
*lurk for Mendax's vincinity in Australian hacking scene [1987]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange
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PS2: even more kudos for referencing cracking groups when we're talking about the demoscene, which is an off-shoot of that particular subculture.
- the PD Fish Disks were not about cracking at all ;
- difficult to separate the three subcultures :
--the demoscene culture grew on the cracking scene ;
-- the cracking scene grew on the phreak scene.
I don't think the demoscene started with Future Crew in 1993. Even there French group Triton had done same quality flybys on Amiga imho (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_Productions)
In cracking domains :
when talking of US/Canadian RSi above , it was all but a cracking group : it was a phreaking group. Only when US FBI busts started did it welcome the cracking scene.
Indeed it did evolve partly into a demoscene group afterwards.
In phreaking domains :
*Cap'n Crunch (John Draper) [1971] blueboxing phreaker : California/US
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_box & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Draper
* Emmanuel Goldstein (Eric Corley) [1984] /w Spot the fed NYC/US
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600:_The_Hacker_Quarterly
*lurk for Mendax's vincinity in Australian hacking scene [1987]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange
I don't think anyone claimed or claims that demoscene started with FC in 1993, though :)