pouët.net

This probably won't get a serious answer on here, but I figured why not ask it.

Today I was reading this article about the creation of the Commodore 128 which Preacher posted, and two things aside from the obvious crunchy goodness stuck out to me:

"During the final push to CES we ate our holiday dinners out of aluminum foil in the hardware lab using the heat of disk drives to keep the food warm, and the bathroom sinks doubled as showers."
and later
"The team slowly broke up without a new challenge to bind us together, I ended up working at a Trauma Center in New Jersey in my spare time as I had become somewhat addicted to adrenaline."

Why is tech culture a culture of all-nighters, of either team cohesion fostered by adversity or solitary all-or-nothing pushes?

I'm not sure it's not just about deadlines.
After all, other fields have deadlines, but they don't seem to be as defined by them.
And in tech some of it seems to be facing unreasonable expectations (e.g. the castles in the air erected by sales), some of it seems to be procrastination (e.g. ohmygodmyendoftermprojectisdue) and some of it seems to be desire to show off (because in tech-related leisure activities, sales departments and homework deadlines are irrelevant).

I find myself wondering if the breakneck pace of the tech industry has a psychosocial origin independent of economic survival or academia. Because you see it in the scene as well.

And I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere (or even here before), so pointers to related articles are bonus.

So, have some fun making theories!

I just enjoy the creative process of demomaking. Rush and urgency don't make the process more pleasant.

So... addicted to demomaking (or intromaking)? Yes.
Addicted to adrenaline? I don't think so.

Also, night is better because helps to avoid distractions.

I think it's normal to put a lot of energy in something that you care about. And if that means that you have to do nightshifts or do 100 hour weeks - that's just how it is.

Because it's a culture of abuse in workplace, as well as a macho culture fostered by some kind of Stakhanovite ideals combined with the kind of singular mindset that many hardcore techies have.

Also, it's also probably an age thing. Personally, I remember how fun it was to keep on working on a great project long into the night when I had no obligations, coding per se seemed rewarding and I was doing something that I found worthwhile then. Such a drive is really easy for a manager to abuse, because the mentality is that the work is its own reward. Now I'm over 30 and can't take it anymore, not physically nor mentally. I can't even manage it for a demoscene production anymore, both because I'm getting old and because I would have to neglect other important things in my life.

Did I already mention that I hate the tech industry with passion?

I don't see a connection between the "tech industry", whatever that is, and the demoscene. Can you establish one? It seems necessary in order to address it.

link to article?

What Preacher said, only that I don't hate the tech industry :) but that might probable be because thanks to German stubbornness I haven't had any noticeable crunch time for the last 5 years or so. :)

Preacher +1 - also except hating tech ;)

Working intensely hard, as a team, toward a shared goal, on new and difficult problems that you overcome together, improving your skills and creating something cool you can show off to peers - is, in a word, awesome! It gives a sense of togetherness, intensity and joy when the project is finally over (and after all, it only ended up crap because of the deadline! ;) ) The all-nighters felt liberating in an oddly childish fashion, though I agree there is definitely more than a hint of macho culture in there. The focus on a single, narrow project for a short, intense period of time is a welcome escape from the constant task-changes in everyday life (maybe more so for techies).

I don't agree this phenomenon is specific to tech though. Lawyers do the same. Journalists do the same. Possibly it's related to passion, possibly a macho thing, but definitely not unique to tech-heads.

My attitude towards tech industry does not stem (only) from this, btw, I simply added the last sentence as a disclaimer because I thought that my opinion might be a bit extreme. I'm also still recovering from a (relatively minor) burnout so that might explain some of my current antipathy.

I'm with ham. Yet, 'crunch time' with demos is very inspiring too when all the stuff comes together and you get sort of meta ideas for the whole that didn't occur when working individually on certain assets of a demo

I've discovered that doing music against a deadline (fun-compos, doing tracks entirely at parties, making a demo in a week) forces a form of creativity combined with quick decision making I rarely have when just doing music for myself without any time constraints.
Because something *has* to be finished I come up with and discard ideas in a fairly extreme tempo.
Technical quality (soundmix especially, but sometimes also stuff like structure and composition) suffers from this though, as there's no time to let something rest and revisit it later.

However, coming up with ideas is what's fun about doing music, the technical stuff is just a necessary evil if you want an end product that's actually good (as opposed to just "fun" or whatever). So in addition to the deadline rush there's also some form of distilled creativity that's rewarding.

The thing is though, that after a party where I've done a lot of stuff in a short time I'm more or less burned out and uninterested in even opening a sequencer for days (sometimes weeks). It's a mini burnout.


And what preacher and hornet said. The rush is fantastic, the accomplishment feels incredible, the comedown is brutal.

You can't have all-nighters everyday.
I had the oppertunity to do all nighters working on demos and music etc for a long period of time and it quickly became rather boring. I think the adrenaline need to be in a proper dose. Too much or too little could decrease motivation. Since that period the urge to make demos has never been higher, because nowadays once I'm working on something I know the clock is ticking. Like it is now, woops.

People from said tech industry (programmers, designers, project managers) would be a natural fit for a demo prod. I find hackathons very similar to demo parties. They look and feel the same minus the excessive boozing and unz unz unz. They encourage these all-nighters + looming deadlines that remind me of fun-compos or making a demo during a party. demo-wise, I think some people wait until the last minute to finish a prod at the party for an impromptu demo-thon that brings forth crazy ideas from lack of sleep or via inebriated collaborators.

re: addicted to adrenaline

this probably has something to do with it....also procrastination.

The adrenaline rush of a looming deadline combined with the intense atmosphere of a demo party is something truly unique. It turns on that special kind of euphoria you feel when you are 110% focused on one thing. I find it very difficult (though not entirely impossible) to achieve that state in a day-to-day setting.

It is, of course, a state of stress (though usually of the good kind) and should not be taken in larger doses...

Also, nobody said it better than Bill Watterson:

my first son is called adrenalino, also.. my first daughter will be called adrenalina!

Derp and Deprina.

But yeah, I think I am burning out constantly. My demos will suck year after year. Maybe I should shift to something else. Maybe my time is over (I am over 30 too). I miss the days when I was young and could more easily put myself into that thing. And I was even less experienced with coding then. Now it feels like repeating myself.

so no link to article. well I'll be off then :)

This, and not just when it comes to the music - putting the demo together is also much more fun when everyone is "on".

Legend: here. There's pleny of similar stuff at Folklore.org.

So, why I mentioned this.

First: I wondered about folks' experience of burnout in the scene,
and whether it has any correlation with folks not staying in the scene
or not getting started in the scene,
because the expectation of such intensity can be intimidating,
especially if your health requires a certain amount of sleep,
or one has family or work responsibilities.

[I used to be in tech too, before I joined the scene (and to tech I may return, but hopefully not this way), in an office where I loved what I did to pieces, but I never had a summer, as that was our rush time and working Saturdays was pretty much expected. We also had at least one Certifiable [Insert Word Here] in Sales whose name was a warning. (e.g. "This is a [so-and-so] project.") Nobody here knows what that looks like, right? ^_____^ ]

Second: I wonder if the kind of high-intensity personalities who often excel in this mode and don't know how to switch off (I DO NOT RESEMBLE THIS REMARK OH LOOK A PINK BUNNY) can end up either spinning their wheels or working against each other when the pressure is off. It is hard to sustain teams, but it also hard to work under constant pressure. Too much urgency can also compress communication and cause conflict, I suspect.

Third: The flipside of that intensity, of that "work hard" half of the equation is "play hard", which in the scene seems to translate in some ways to "booze until you are horizontal".

I wonder, does it have to be that way? Yes, it is exciting, but is there a way to do it that won't damage one's productivity?

I do wonder if we'd have more prods and more people being involved if more folks espoused as well as embraced a gradual workflow.

And hell yes it is difficult, says the little minnow trying to coordinate and make productions as well as organize in a seascape of really big fish to look up to.

Thank you big fish, for sharing the krill with all the new coders and artists and graphicians and organizers and so on ( ;
We comparative n00bs in the next generation all benefit from that.


Anyway, OH NOES, I was serious on Pouet!

Quick Knoeki! Pony emergency!


:D

Thank you everyone for your replies.

And yes, I managed to break the oneliner with a Grace Hopper quotation.

*shrug* snerk.

Also, re gradual idea:
what if more folks did microsprints coming up to parties? Not burnout crazy, not al-nighters, but small pushes?

A la Eliterhaus?

Could help to bring folks together as well as make more prods . . .

Works best when there is a monthly meetup or something but hard to do here yet. Thinking about it. Starts small, but could become a thing.

God bless america!

Personally I hate working under pressure. I prefer to work in my own speed, to make breaks whenever I want, and so on. Maybe that's why I never really became a demoscener. I am well aware that the IT industry is very exploitative, that's also why I decided to study medicine. (Maybe not the best choice either...)