”LAN party tax” hits Swedish gamers
category: parties [glöplog]
STOCKHOLM (FRIA TIDER). Gamers in Sweden suffer a hard financial blow as authorities decide to tax so-called LAN parties. From now on, organizers of multiplayer get-togethers will be forced to pay a fee of up to $5,000 in order to receive a "permit" to connect PCs and video game consoles for gaming purposes.
http://www.friatider.se/lan-party-tax-hits-swedish-gamers
http://www.friatider.se/lan-party-tax-hits-swedish-gamers
Thi is so absurd it is hard to stop grasping for air and actually formulate a plea why this is exactly what you don't want.
Those lan-parties already pay taxes, buy all their games legally and pay to their local GEMMA. I would say that if people get together and link up pcs the governement should stimulate this, and not tax it even harder.
Also it collides with the right to freely gather.
And I,.. uh,. uhm,.
Those lan-parties already pay taxes, buy all their games legally and pay to their local GEMMA. I would say that if people get together and link up pcs the governement should stimulate this, and not tax it even harder.
Also it collides with the right to freely gather.
And I,.. uh,. uhm,.
Socialist paradise Sweden.
but they're still allowed to make demos, i don't see any problem!
Quote:
”In the eyes of the law, these are slot machines. There is no difference,” Johan Röhr, general counsel at the Gambling Board, told the computer magazine M3.
I'm now genuinely curious how Swedish law has managed to define 'slot machine' in such a fucked-up way that it encompasses privately owned computers at a LAN party. I guess it would have to be something like "a computerised device located in a public space for the purpose of entertainment". (So are they going to tax people playing Angry Birds on the bus too?)
It's a weird shift to logically pigeonhole slot machines (a machine that is built to provide the player with actual financial return) and gaming consoles (a machine that usually only costs the player).
That being said, I think the reasoning behind this legislation is grounded in games with auction houses and other economic features where you can sell items and receive real-world money for it.
That being said, I think the reasoning behind this legislation is grounded in games with auction houses and other economic features where you can sell items and receive real-world money for it.
Fun bit:
Well thank fuck for that.
Quote:
For purely private gaming authorization is, so far, not needed.
Well thank fuck for that.
i assume the slot machines parallel is made when the #1 of a counterstrike deathmatch gets 10k at a big lan party and then he's been lucky!
i mean, you cannot host big poker games in e.g. NL or DE without a proper permit as well, dunno if there's a fee involved but probably.
The question is does this tax go for competitive tournaments with prizes or also for just, well, LAN parties with no tournaments?
Cos if it's the prizes that are the problem, then eventually they might figure out taxation of democompos as well.
Cos if it's the prizes that are the problem, then eventually they might figure out taxation of democompos as well.
what a weird law!
Well, if several people on a bus are playing on their phones (likely), which are certainly networked (via the internet) for, among other uses, gaming... it's a mobile lan party.
That sounds totally unlikely, but then so does a a group of people turning up in one place and networking slot machines, and there's a law to cover that. If they can get the law so twisted, there's a fair chance bus tickets are going to get expensive.
But yeah, how will it affect demo parties? We also network lots of computers in a big room. And some people play games in there. And there are prizes. Anybody planning a swedish demo party right now might want to do some checking.
Quote:
So are they going to tax people playing Angry Birds on the bus too?
Well, if several people on a bus are playing on their phones (likely), which are certainly networked (via the internet) for, among other uses, gaming... it's a mobile lan party.
That sounds totally unlikely, but then so does a a group of people turning up in one place and networking slot machines, and there's a law to cover that. If they can get the law so twisted, there's a fair chance bus tickets are going to get expensive.
But yeah, how will it affect demo parties? We also network lots of computers in a big room. And some people play games in there. And there are prizes. Anybody planning a swedish demo party right now might want to do some checking.
gargaj: you think ppl who managed to come up with such a bullshit law in the first place are able to distinguish with such nuances? ;)
it's crisis-driven mafioso-politics... 'if there's money involved. we want a cut!'
OK, a bit of link-following has led me here:
So, my best guess (which I'm not going to substantiate by learning Swedish and getting a law degree) is that the Gambling Board's lawyer has misunderstood how LAN parties work, and thinks that there's a big organisation providing hundreds of public gaming terminals.
Quote:
(Google-translated, emphasis mine)The Supreme Administrative Court ruled in a judgment (RAW 2007 ref 44) that "the business of programmed computers for gaming, such as connected in the so-called LAN environment or the Internet and addressed to the public, are considered to be licensable activities".
So, my best guess (which I'm not going to substantiate by learning Swedish and getting a law degree) is that the Gambling Board's lawyer has misunderstood how LAN parties work, and thinks that there's a big organisation providing hundreds of public gaming terminals.
Finally some sensible laws! I hope we get this in Finland as well, so everybody will stop gaming and start making demos. Pure demoscene Assembly woohoo.
I'd love to see the assembly security staff enforcing a no-gaming rule :)
they'll probably tax demoparties too
since you can potentially use the network in development of software that may result in a cash prize
gambling in a nutshell!
since you can potentially use the network in development of software that may result in a cash prize
gambling in a nutshell!
so, using a computer in a way that might potentially earn you money? Any IT based business, in other words. Especially game development, that's a huge gamble :)
The state is dying. Join the revolution!
Oh god, not on Pouet too.. Dear lord people, learn to check your sources before you get all your panties in a twist:
http://www.lotteriinspektionen.se/sv/Press/Nyheter/LAN-spel-kraver-tillstand/
Translates to:
http://www.lotteriinspektionen.se/sv/Press/Nyheter/LAN-spel-kraver-tillstand/
Quote:
Det är viktigt att påpeka att kravet på tillstånd endast gäller om spelet anordnas för allmänheten eller i förvärvssyfte (det vill säga för att tjäna pengar) och inte för en enskild eller grupp av enskilda som enbart spelar för sitt egna höga nöjes skull.
Translates to:
Quote:
It's important to point out that the need for a license only applies of the games in question are accessible to the average public or if they are set up with the main purpose to generate income for the owner. A license is not needed if a single person or a group of people gather to play for entertainment purposes.
PEOPLE TAKE HEED HE'S ADDRESSING US!
HEED TAKEN AND PUT IN A DRAWER FOR SAFE KEEPING!
I.e. if tickets are sold to the public? That sounds like the way demo parties work.
Quote:
accessible to the average public or if they are set up with the main purpose to generate income for the owner
I.e. if tickets are sold to the public? That sounds like the way demo parties work.
psonice: no. If the "gaming machines" are available to the general public. If you bring your own computer to a LAN-party to play Whatever-Strike on it, that clearly falls outside of the scope of the legislation.
Games, not game machines. And then it comes down to what they mean by 'accessible'. The games are definitely accessible if you pay for them. Some are actually free. Demos are definitely accessible.