Open sourcing pouet.net ?
category: offtopic [glöplog]
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I thought you were an ok dude from your mags, but now I really begin to doubt that.
ROFL
adok: this site would be NOTHING without the active contributors. but i have the feeling that you argueing here just to troll anyway.
sak: i fail to see any fault on the "other" side. please examplify.
sak: i fail to see any fault on the "other" side. please examplify.
The great thing with human beings is that they do mistakes.
A greater thing is that some can even recognize it and ask for forgiveness to the ones they hurt.
And the best of all is the make-up sex that comes after (although not sure it applies here), because forgiveness ought be always granted to the goodwill-ing ones.
A greater thing is that some can even recognize it and ask for forgiveness to the ones they hurt.
And the best of all is the make-up sex that comes after (although not sure it applies here), because forgiveness ought be always granted to the goodwill-ing ones.
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I thought you were an ok dude from your mags, but now I really begin to doubt that.
AAHHAHAHAHA excellent
Well dip seems you provided your own example of all this class right now, thanks saves me the time.
You must be new here.
allow me one observation. the conspiracy-theory of a "gargaj fan club" aside, it seems to me that the people who stand up against analogue's actions are a very broad crowd, not subsumeable under any particular platform, country, group, and scene generation. and even some people who have major personal problems with gargaj can be found among this group.
the analogue supporter group, on the other hand (apart from the obvious bunch of trolls, halfwits and asslickers) are all to be found in the same bunch as analogue himself - calodox, tpolm, ribbon, mandarine and those generationally and aesthetically close to them. i love the stuff you guys did in and for the scene (the whole ironical breaking up of scene aesthetics, and pouet is one result of it) - don't you think you're practicing a somewhat false solidarity here, blinded by the fact that one of "your" people gets (rightfully) attacked? all your calls for "forgivingness" and "good will" are absolutely out of place and can only be explained by the aforementioned observation.
the analogue supporter group, on the other hand (apart from the obvious bunch of trolls, halfwits and asslickers) are all to be found in the same bunch as analogue himself - calodox, tpolm, ribbon, mandarine and those generationally and aesthetically close to them. i love the stuff you guys did in and for the scene (the whole ironical breaking up of scene aesthetics, and pouet is one result of it) - don't you think you're practicing a somewhat false solidarity here, blinded by the fact that one of "your" people gets (rightfully) attacked? all your calls for "forgivingness" and "good will" are absolutely out of place and can only be explained by the aforementioned observation.
sak, i didn't say anything offensive. please explain.
and also, sak, i just realised that you are tribe. honestly, i didn't expect this from you.
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If you refrain from putting me in a group I'm not part of, I will refrain from labeling you a part of Analogue's oligarchic conspiracy. Does that sound fair to you?
I spoke my mind, as do you. That's all.
didn't mean anything by it. was just directing my answer to the whole group of people in that category who said something similar to what you had just written. apologies if i insulted you in some way.
Come on dip. You might have not said anything offensive, but you made it your point to acknowledge a personal stab.
And yeah neither gargaj nor analogue is my friend so I suppose it would make sense for me to just laugh at the drama.
And yeah neither gargaj nor analogue is my friend so I suppose it would make sense for me to just laugh at the drama.
it's not about friendship, it's about the future of a centerpiece of the demoscene.
dipswitch, I fail to see a connection with TPOLM or calodox and analogue.
I don't even know him. I only know that I joined pouet early on because as a member of the french scene I came to know about it very early and that's all. The second thing is that I was happy to see a bubble bobble avatar back on the pouet.net bbs :)
TPOLM has more to do with scene.org (and nothing with pouet.net) and I have had personal ties with the former and none with the latter.
So maybe it's just stylistic differences?
I don't even know him. I only know that I joined pouet early on because as a member of the french scene I came to know about it very early and that's all. The second thing is that I was happy to see a bubble bobble avatar back on the pouet.net bbs :)
TPOLM has more to do with scene.org (and nothing with pouet.net) and I have had personal ties with the former and none with the latter.
So maybe it's just stylistic differences?
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I only know that I joined pouet early on because as a member of the french scene
exactly. all those serious demosceners who are defending analogue right now are from that particular scene generation and background. this is by no means a rant against any groups or this particular generation (which i, in fact, always have looked up to - i remember how proud i was on evoke 2000 when the calodox guys used my computer to finish their demo, hehe). it's just an observation that hints me towards the assumption that you, ps, alkama and others are defending analogue not out of reasonable arguments, but out of generational solidarity.
in fact, i have heard not one reasonable argument for this "let's move on and pretend none of analogue's atrocious behaviour happened" line that you guys are advocating.
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the analogue supporter group, on the other hand (apart from the obvious bunch of trolls, halfwits and asslickers) are all to be found in the same bunch as analogue himself - calodox, tpolm, ribbon, mandarine and those generationally and aesthetically close to them.
erm, what? this is a bit far-fetched gleb: for starters p01 and alkama (part of the group you mentioned) were speaking against analogue in some of their posts. secondly, neither me nor knos know analogue that well to have "blind solidarity".
one thing i do share with knos is that we both were part of scene.org during the period scene.org stepped in and "took over" pouet.net, but i still don't see how that might bring forth solidarity by affiliation since we didn't actually work directly with analogue on anything.
i could perhaps claim both me and knos share a vision on how it would be best to provide forward resolve to conflicts that involve the demoscene community though, by having spent so many years talking about those concerns; and how we both probably agree that it's best to pass on the torch to someone else when you don't have time to actively contribute on something instead of hogging it.
and regarding hogging, that is an aspect which i had been somewhat disappointed with gargaj about, regarding pouet development, for a few years now, and i mentioned this to him a few times throughout the years. i know he always had the best intentions in mind though, and did what he thought was best for the community, but i can't possibly agree that bottlenecking a rewrite development for 5 years is a good thing. especially in dawn of the demoscene open source spring that occurred circa 2 years ago.
dipswitch: ARE YOU CALLING ME OLDSKOOL? :D why thank you <3 <3 <3
dipswitch, I am user 125 of pouet, and still do not agree with analogue's move (I'm not french though). Then again, I'm not particulary on Gargaj's side if we are defending "developing a new pouet", since I've seen v2's code and that's 5 years of code which are not EXTREMELY better than the current one (it IS better, just not THAT better IMO).
That doesn't say anything about Gargaj in particular, just about this particular piece of code some are discussing here. I'm not impressed with either's (analogue's, or gargaj's) code for pouet.
As I stated on a single comment on github, I'm all for redoing pouet from scratch... and that includes v2. But before that, I think people should concentrate on having the data in a decent and normalized format, and having an API which can be queried. The frontend can wait: the current one "works" for the time being, and other than obvious fixes (sql injections and so on), I don't think anyone should spend any effort on adding new features to a broken codebase.
I even asked for some features at some point in pouet, but now that I can see the source code, I see how just wrong that is.
Disclaimer: I don't have anything personal either with or against Gargaj or analogue, I don't even know any of them in person and I don't think we have personally shared a single word other than maybe some crossed comments here in pouet, ever. I can admire Gargaj's demoscene work (which I do), but I don't think that has any weight on this particular discussion,
That doesn't say anything about Gargaj in particular, just about this particular piece of code some are discussing here. I'm not impressed with either's (analogue's, or gargaj's) code for pouet.
As I stated on a single comment on github, I'm all for redoing pouet from scratch... and that includes v2. But before that, I think people should concentrate on having the data in a decent and normalized format, and having an API which can be queried. The frontend can wait: the current one "works" for the time being, and other than obvious fixes (sql injections and so on), I don't think anyone should spend any effort on adding new features to a broken codebase.
I even asked for some features at some point in pouet, but now that I can see the source code, I see how just wrong that is.
Disclaimer: I don't have anything personal either with or against Gargaj or analogue, I don't even know any of them in person and I don't think we have personally shared a single word other than maybe some crossed comments here in pouet, ever. I can admire Gargaj's demoscene work (which I do), but I don't think that has any weight on this particular discussion,
jcl just mentioned a very important thing: the only way to work on that db remodel which everyone agrees to be necessary for pouet to move forward, is to participate on the current github. gargaj isnt working on anything like that, atleast if he was, from his words, he currently no longer is. so that's work that needs to be done by "someone", or we could all just wait for demozoo. personally i'd rather contribute than wait.
I just committed a simple json exporter for prods - for all of those who don't want to wait for the API to be finished.
Could be extended quite easily to export data from specific users - for example if dipswitch decides to pull his data and then delete his account.
This way, data can simply be imported into another prod-database (e.g. demozoo or something completely different).
Writing the same kind of export for the BBS would also be quite easy.
Could be extended quite easily to export data from specific users - for example if dipswitch decides to pull his data and then delete his account.
This way, data can simply be imported into another prod-database (e.g. demozoo or something completely different).
Writing the same kind of export for the BBS would also be quite easy.
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just committed a simple json exporter for prods - for all of those who don't want to wait for the API to be finished.
Could be extended quite easily to export data from specific users - for example if dipswitch decides to pull his data and then delete his account.
This way, data can simply be imported into another prod-database (e.g. demozoo or something completely different).
felipe, i am in doubt about any sensible definition of "oldskool", but you were one of my first personal international contacts nevertheless, and seemed super elite to me back then! =) <3
d.fox, this sounds good, thanks! i do, however, still have a small hope that it won't be necessary ;)
I've opened an issue on github, basically suggesting "change at the top", but hopefully in the way that's good for everyone.
If you support it, go add a comment: https://github.com/lra/pouet.net/issues/48
If you support it, go add a comment: https://github.com/lra/pouet.net/issues/48
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Analogue recently returned to pouet and "took over" control of the site, with the intention of opening up development on the site for the benefit of the scene (I don't doubt his good intentions here).
Unfortunately the way that actually happened has seriously split the scene, and analogue has lost the trust of a large number of pouet users. Many are unhappy with what has happened and the way things are going.
I don't think things will settle while analogue is here and in control, which is bad for analogue, bad for pouet and bad for the demoscene. Let's try to fix this before we fix pouet.
My suggestion is this:
Analogue either hands control of pouet (site, database, and this repository) to somebody else, or shares responsibility. More on this in a moment.
Development stops for 1 month (except for bug fixes). Many disagree with the current route development is taking, the site is working fine, and there is no rush. Let's calm down, figure out a way forward that at least most people are happy with, then start up again. Maybe we'll end up working on pouet 1.0 code on this same repository, but let's discuss the options at least.
While that's happening, we choose a 'leader'. Somebody to look after pouet, somebody to oversee future development, somebody respected and trusted by at least a majority of the scene. Doesn't have to be the same person for both roles, and it doesn't have to be a single person, a group is fine so long as they get on and can make decisions effectively. So long as they're reasonable and have that trust and respect, we're good.
About 'handing over power'. Unfortunately I think this is necessary now, or at least responsibility should be split with somebody else that more people trust. I know many are against anyone "being in power", and that was part of analogue's reasoning for doing all this (although to many of us the outcome is the opposite of what he intended). On the other hand, lack of leadership means lack of direction.
We can discuss all this later, for now let's stabilise the ship, and make sure somebody is there to do maintenance and bug fixing at least. Whoever it is should be there *only* to maintain the status quo and keep pouet running, nothing more.
If you support this proposal, please say so in the comments.
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Analogue: I'm sure you won't like reading this, but on the other hand a lot of sceners (including many 'top men' if you look through the pouet thread) don't like what's happened. Something has to give, so go with what's best for the scene. Listen to what people write here before deciding anything. Also, you don't have to walk away from pouet - personally I'd like to see you still involved, just not in the 'benevolent dictator' role, we don't want or need dictators in the scene :)
If you do decide to hand over power (or even walk away), don't - we need somebody to take over so the site doesn't collapse, so let's sort that out first (it could be hard!)
As it has been noted earlier, the whole import/export data thing makes only sense with a local db dump. Squeezing a few drops out via the live site is ok for some personal comment/prods backup, but not what gasman et al. will need later on. But yeah, options are nice to have, so: Good thinking.
psonice: Looks like it was closed quicky, which I'm sure will do nothing to tame the flames. *sigh*
(Although it _was_ the wrong place to discuss this)
(Although it _was_ the wrong place to discuss this)