pouët.net

pouet just got poueted

kusma: as i just mentioned to radiantx, I admit I prolly oversimplified my statement - my point was that announcing an unfinished / halfassed repo with fanfare and confetti is probably going to be a timesink because developers don't only need to focus on the actual development plan they had, but now they also have the attention/pressure/etc. So I prolly should've written "first public release revision" or something to that effect. But again, I know this is my personal opinion and I don't want it to be written in stone, and I don't think this discussion is relevant in the first place.

dunno how the current code looks like but this one seems pretty much advanced with the search suggest and submit modification features...

search suggestion is actually backported to 0.9, you just have to know where to look: ;)

It's just sad where all of this is going. Just really sad.

I agree with Saga Musix.

That search suggestion thingy is nice, but no dice in Opera.. :|

I would have done EXACTLY what Gargaj just did for basically the reasons stated. Given away my code, and gone back to doing my daytime job with detours into doing something enjoyable for the demoscene - dealing with people who contributes nothing to my work is not enjoyable, and others seem to be willing to do the job.

yep gargajs reaction is indeed understandable but he stayed reasonable plus he released the code he worked on. thats quite a lot in my book.

so no excuses left, go make a repo about it.

didn't you just semi-ragequit? ;)

Then I'd love to hear why you closed the original random img thread because I missed that discussion back when it happened.

im already working on an exploit so that my user will get more glops everytime someone posts 'outsource' in the bbs!

Gargaj: Even with that elaboration, I don't think it's anywhere near a well established fact. In fact, my experience is quite to the contrary. You can feel however you like about open vs closed development, but you do not get to pass of your personal feelings as if they were facts.

Of course making a big fuzz about a shitty little piece of code-base that does nothing useful is pointless. But publishing code early has very seldom been proven to be a bad idea in it self. Publishing code late however, has proven a bad idea - over and over again. And usually precisely because of the "There, I'm done with the fun stuff, now you maintain this, community"-attitude that you seemed to dread so much some pages before.

Publishing code does not mean you'll be flooded with pull-requests for esoteric features. It usually means business as usual, no one cares. But people can have a look. And some times people spot a bug, and send you a fix. Publishing source code should not lead to added work. If it does, you're doing it wrong.

But I think the best argument for opening up the source code, is that collaborating in the open is so much easier than collaborating behind a wall. You don't need to keep a list of who can see what, everyone can see what everyone is publishing. You can use free-for-opensource hosting services. So if you do it, do it primarily for your own sake.

And if the reason why you don't want to open up the source code is that you don't want to collaborate, then I think it's time for you to consider stepping back. I seriously hope that's not the case though.

Am I too late for the party? And who is this Analogue guy? Have we met?
No wait,.. you're talking about opensourcing a webpage? Haha oh wow.
In that case, do continue.

kusma: I think you'll find he said quite clearly that he's not against collaboration -- something that's also a proven fact from the last few years of him being the admin. Also, you seem to have missed another thing: Gargaj is out. Done.

if gargaj is out, who is the new emperor of pouet?

dubmood: I guess I might have :) Although in the current situation there's not much I can do other than proving a point, so it's not really "quitting" anymore :)

As far as the thread goes, that was something that stressed me for a few days at the time, and I was sorta shocked by the response. It was quite obvious (we did stats with Keops I remember) that the thread was mostly frequented by newcomer users who had no visible connection or interest in the scene and they never stayed more than just posting something and never logging back - it was basically this crappy unmoderated version of Imgur, and that bothered quite a few people because I think it was taking away the attention from the rest of the site, and it wasn't just me thinking that.

Make no mistake, I love the occasional zaniness of the Pouet, the Klamrisk thread for one is fucking hilarious and there's a lot of creativity involved in it, even the random anim-GIF thread is kinda entertaining, and I'm not against offtopic threads either. But Pouet transitioning into an image board was something that I don't think anyone would've appreciated (especially one that apparently contained material that really shouldn't have been there), and it certainly was by far the busiest section of the site - I think I locked it at 32k(?) or 64k(?)posts, and even the fixme thread is only at 20k.

There was quite a harsh reaction at the time (and from the weirdest angles) which I wasn't sure what to make of, because immediately afterwards people made a second thread and some of it carried on (and still carries on since as far as I can see) and I'm fine with that; I intended to make a bit of a wakeup call for people who waste too much time in there, perhaps turn them (back) towards the actual purpose of the site, which are the prods. So overall I stand by the decision, I don't feel I deprived anyone of their ability to post pictures of cats or their breakfast on Pouet.

gloom: I don't see how anything I said contradicts that, apart from maybe a slight phrasing-change in the last paragraph. I don't refresh this thread every 2 seconds, I have a day-job ;)

gloom: But his actions and other arguments told a different story.

kusma: If I wasn't clear, I do apologize (although reading back, I said - quote - "I'm ambivalent" and "I'm not against opensource categorically"), but I'm having a hard time filing "I'm gonna opensource your code - deal with it" and the subsequent shenanigans under "collaboration".

kusma: How? Is not putting something on Github the same as being against collaboration? Clearly he collaborated all the time, with many different people, just not on Github (or the likes). I fail to see how that's any sort of indication of a desire to avoid cooperation.

I'm still curious about how things will pan out from here (if at all), now that Analogue made very clear that his notion of collaboration is "do like I want, or else".

maybe analogue lost interest already.

Gargaj: Yet in your "apology", you reiterated what I consider broken arguments, which is what I tried to argue against.

gloom: If you had actually read my post above, instead of skimming through it looking for quarreling-bait, you would have realized that my ending argument (which seems to be the only part you care about, somehow) is that opening up the source code is something that should because it enables better collaboration. It's not like collaboration is a binary thing.

And all, I really hope we can still savage this. We all care too much about Pouët to let a childish flame war (from both sides IMO) ruin something so good.

I would think he is going to fix it all by himself, I assume that is the reason he locked the rest out?