pouët.net

wysiwtf: yeah, better double the work for the next 10 years then trying to maintain two release databases :-)

and why should they be synced? wouldnt demozoo replace pouet? or if it's shit, it wont? and for those few transition months, all the hassle to sync DBs wouldn't be worth it :P

d.fox: well i dont know exactly how big the dbs are in comparison yet, but taking a wild guess by looking at the stats id say demozoos is at about 50% of pouets. sure it would take some time but if prod adding to the old db is frozen im sure the process would take a lot less time than 10 years.

but it wont happen anyway =)

Well, despite Pouet having a considerable about of C64 releases, it hasn't killed csdb yet. Databases can co-exist!

That has more to do with both size/activity and "peculiarity" of the c64 scene. While Demozoo is/was not supposed to replace pouet, it certainly could, if its makers wanted it to. It would and could not replace csdb though. Although _that_ site could also use some fresh paint, but that's beside the point. :)

Great Scott!

It's only a conversation if more than one person is listening.

what's there to compromise? if analogue wants to opensource his (apparently hidious) code why not? ppl can look at it. judging how helpful others were with 2.0/demozoo/earlier pouet revisions i doubt this whole going github will cause a massive boost. so, let's see them sources, have a good laugh or two and in the meantime wait for gargaj to finish 2.0 :P

Funny seeing the sceneawardsjury/slengpung people accusing analogue for elitism.
Why don't you just let him do whatever he wants to with his site?

maali: but that's not what he wants, now is it? He wants people to contribute to the source -- a source that's already derelict. As many people have said already: why?

gloom: well, why not?
or as wy***tf put it

This is all very good material for my next paper on the demoscene. Anyone care to compile it into a coherent analysis of culture in exchange for co-authorship?

If you want this thread to die, and there is no reason for it not to do so, don't comment on it.

The only pieces of newspaper I'm going to pitch at the flames before I start ignoring it again will be:

1) There is no "too long". This is a hobby. Nobody gets paid for it.
Before you bitch, think about the time that is going to maintain this site, a thankless (hell, even worse than that, considering folks' bitching at him) boringass task which also means its maintainer has no time to make anything actually fun to make.
So he sacrifices twice. Think about that.

2) Don't like the smell of this cowpat soup on the stove again? Ignore it. If you want to help, I bet the best way to contribute is to use the muscles you would be using to comment here to email Gargaj and ask him what he needs to help out. Gargaj can say what he needs, as he is the closest thing this project has to a project manager as well as chief coder, as far as I can tell. Hell, I'd offer data entry assistance as the only thing I can contribute, but likely that is useless.

Peace be upon you.

Heh, I gotta be the least effective dictator ever - I don't even forcefully silence the irritating detractors. :(

Anyway:

Okay let me repeat once again: the database (which both 0.9 and 2.0 runs off) is broken, but it is broken _CONSISTENTLY_ (more or less). That means that as long as the 0.9 code remains the same (i.e. unfixed), it is possible to PAINLESSLY (more or less) transition between a broken version and a fixed version. If you start accepting patches for 0.9, then you might have a screwie bastardized database where the new content "works" but the old one is still busted and the conversion script has to take that into account -> even more delay.

The reason 0.9 is not being developed (except for small cosmetic things) is the exact same reason - we're talking about 300MB of broken content that needs to be fixed, but since the 0.9 code is an unrefactored disaster of ~170 redundant files with no distinction in GPC Magic Quotes, no abstraction in SQL, no possibility to easily convert to Unicode, etc... it's near impossible to fix all this. That's why a 0.9->2.0 switch is super convenient because I bring down the site for maintenance, do a conversion (about an hour or two as far as I tested), then bring it back up as 2.0 and whoo, awesomesauce, unicode finally works in the oneliner.

There is nothing political about this and I said that I don't really care whether it's opensource or not (I have an opinion but I suppose it doesn't really matter), but I care about whether someone is going to break my work I've been planning for years.

But you know what, here's a modest proposal: I'll set a deadline, a FINAL HARD DEADLINE to finish Pouet2.0 (and not years off, not even months), at which point I do the aforementioned switch, and afterwards you can shove out the (by that point obsoleted) 0.9 to your favorite github account and we can come back to talk about whether opensource 2.0 is a good idea.

Howssat?

AWESOME!

Absolutely well written.

+100000 Gargaj

Unicode working in the oneliner \o/

+everything that gargaj said, thrice!

fuck yeah, let the ugly software die and get replaced... no need to sweat over a dead codebase.

The Demozoo guys said "this year" as well, let's see if we can gaze at _two_ magical vapor-ware unicorns by the end of december. ;)

Pouet Nukem 2.0 ;)

fuck yeah

OK cool you pissed me off.

Keep your fanclub off of it please, it's looking weird.

Ok 1st let me blast a bubble here about gargaj being the maintainer.
Went through my source code archive and the history of the 0.9 code base, the writers are:
- analogue 49%
- ps 41%
- gargaj 8%
- melwyn 1%
- redhound 0%
- gasman 0%
- santa 0%
- knos 0%
- NiR 0%
- stil 0%
- rez 0%

Should not suprise anybody since the chronology is:
- 2000-2004 analogue
- 2004-2007 ps
- 2007-2013 gargaj

And most on pouet happened before 2007.

Next, going open source is not a "we can come back to talk about it".
You did not ask when you started a v2, and when I suggested one, you told me you were on it and you needed a little more time, years ago.

Last time I asked to open source the stuff, exactly 1 year ago (that's why I'm jumping in now) you told me exactly the same.
Bugs referenced 1 year ago are still there, look at the previous open source thread.

For those who talk without seeing: v2 is an improvement but it's still PHP without comments, No MVC, No ORM, inline HTML in PHP, Copy pasted classes, no UT, credentials all over the place, ...
It's surely better than 0.9, but if it's owned by someone, who cares, I'd rather have open shitty code, than closed code.
Also if your codebase is so great, it should not be too hard to apply any DB change, really.

A real v2 should at least have the features listed above + a REST API, and ideally, it would be just an API with a JS client using it, so that anybody can build his own version.

This big whining just looks like a big mutiny to me.
I've always made sure pouet was open, just a database that the scene could use to easily reference and find what's there.
It will stay like this, and it's not gonna run someone's code unless this someone's gives up his code.

I'm the BDFL here.

I'll write it again to make it clear, your code is welcome if you are giving up your ownership over it.

Until then, I'll fix 0.9 with others.

what gargaj said. and dont forget to add pouet 2.0 as a prod on pouet 0.9.. wait.. or the opposite ???