Revision 2013 - Damages
category: parties [glöplog]
Having to deal with removing stickers at work a lot I found the best option is a hot-air gun. Even the tricky ones that stick hard and rip easily can be pulled of gently when heated. Not saying that I approve of this sticker madness altogether...
Re: Thumbnails. I think everyone should provide these with the release themselves. You will need to upload a thumb to pouet eventually so why not just create it with the release? If the compo-team forgets your thumbnail I'd hope they'd correct such a mistake if made aware.
Re: Thumbnails. I think everyone should provide these with the release themselves. You will need to upload a thumb to pouet eventually so why not just create it with the release? If the compo-team forgets your thumbnail I'd hope they'd correct such a mistake if made aware.
I saw these stickers all over one of the bathroom stalls, and thought to myself "This can't possibly be from us . . ."From stickers all over the partyplace to PICKING UP A PINBALL MACHINE AND TILTING IT 45 degrees, I think a few folks need to remember how hard it is to organize an event, from finding and getting an economically viable location, to finding sponsors to work with, and often floating event costs such as downpayments until ticket sales make up for them.
The Revision organizers give us all a gift each year. So treat them and the gift they give with the respect deserved.
The Revision organizers give us all a gift each year. So treat them and the gift they give with the respect deserved.
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Just because we handed out and made stickers doesn't mean we're responsible for people sticking them in idiotic locations.
No, you're just enabling them by handing these stickers out in droves. I really hate that attitude with event promoters handing out stickers to idiots and I really can't see why you would use that straw man argument.
That said, I like demoscene stickers, provided they're on my bags and hardware.
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No, you're just enabling them by handing these stickers out in droves.
Don't get me wrong, I understand your point and in a way I agree with it, but on the other hand enabling someone to do something doesn't make me responsible; in the end they still (mis)used something which was in no way meant to damage anything. I saw someone invoke the gun argument, which is ridiculous because guns are generally intended to be used to inflict damage in some way or form, whereas stickers are not, as far as I'm concerned.
That all doesn't mean I don't think it's a shame that all this happened. Especially because stickers were never a problem until this year, and I suppose next time we'll just have to spread them only by leaving them behind at people's machines... or something like that.
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That said, I like demoscene stickers, provided they're on my bags and hardware.
I agree, and that's exactly what they were intended for. Not for vandalizing the place.
Better not let people remove the stickers themselves, causing only more damage. If not done probably.
Personally I like to see some advertisements/PR around but with respect! Sometimes I see some really funny things and sometimes it crosses the line.
That's why I think the allowed spaces is a good initiative of the organizer's.
Making people aware.
Personally I like to see some advertisements/PR around but with respect! Sometimes I see some really funny things and sometimes it crosses the line.
That's why I think the allowed spaces is a good initiative of the organizer's.
Making people aware.
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Especially because stickers were never a problem until this year
They weren't explicitly referred to up until now. That doesn't mean it was never a problem before.
Even at the previous 800-pound german gorilla of demo parties you'd see poorly-placed stickers and posters everywhere. I've peed on TRSI and Rabenauge more times than I care to remember -mostly through the means of stickers in urinals.
I think there have been mentions of stickers and stuff by organizers in the past, it just wasn't quite as extreme as this year. Fuckings to idiots who place their stickers everywhere without a second thought!
A couple of suggestions - I have a friend who regularly hires out halls to do music events.
He usually gets charged a bond by the venue which he can lose if there is any damage. What he does is pass that cost onto the bands that have in the past caused him trouble (if he continues to promote them at all).
If they ask why he explains to them honestly that he can't trust them not to cause damage and it'd not fair that he bears the cost of their lack of self control. If they refuse he takes it out of their takings and refunds it too them at the end of the gig when he gets his bond back. Don't know if any of this would work at a demoparty.
End of the day - the organisers/promoters often do much more than is required of them without having to either pay for or have to cleanup other peoples mess.
He usually gets charged a bond by the venue which he can lose if there is any damage. What he does is pass that cost onto the bands that have in the past caused him trouble (if he continues to promote them at all).
If they ask why he explains to them honestly that he can't trust them not to cause damage and it'd not fair that he bears the cost of their lack of self control. If they refuse he takes it out of their takings and refunds it too them at the end of the gig when he gets his bond back. Don't know if any of this would work at a demoparty.
End of the day - the organisers/promoters often do much more than is required of them without having to either pay for or have to cleanup other peoples mess.
Stickers are art.
However, stickers hard to remove from surfaces where you are forced to remove them from are more of a pain than art. Most stickers with paper back are a pain to a remove on many surfaces.
At BP the hall owners (the city of Bingen) luckily didn't care much (OTOH they also did not care to maintain the hall, which was bad), but we had to remove stickers from mirrors, and that sucked.
But again: Stickers are art. Every time I manage to still spot a scene-related sticker somewhere in Bingen (often on street signs) I'm quite happy and proud.
So please: Keep that art form alive, but use common sense when placing stickers at demo parties.
However, stickers hard to remove from surfaces where you are forced to remove them from are more of a pain than art. Most stickers with paper back are a pain to a remove on many surfaces.
At BP the hall owners (the city of Bingen) luckily didn't care much (OTOH they also did not care to maintain the hall, which was bad), but we had to remove stickers from mirrors, and that sucked.
But again: Stickers are art. Every time I manage to still spot a scene-related sticker somewhere in Bingen (often on street signs) I'm quite happy and proud.
So please: Keep that art form alive, but use common sense when placing stickers at demo parties.
I hope we didn't make any trouble with our Dexter/Osci posters, but we used the black gaffer tape we got from the orgas, told them we wanted to hang up a few posters and tried to use places that don't cause any removal-problems. If we yet caused any, let me know! Those should've been fast to remove, so I didn't think on removing them. I definitely agree on the sticker-issue, that really sucks getting them off and it should not be work of any of the orgas. So dear orgas, again, thanks for awesome Revisions!!
@D.Fox
I don't understand how some pins cause serious damage on a tunnel that leads to the toilets and actually looks like that. but -hey- no problem by me. no big posters unless i bring the wall :-)
i'm really sorry 'bout 2011. nobody talked to me about that at all. wasn't it the orgas who advised me to use biros instead of felt pens ?.
nevermind.
@/
no posters for revision anymore.
i apologize to have caused trouble in any way.
and i apologize for trying to raise the gfx compos to a progressive level with my illustrations.
many people enjoyed them.
few are pissed about that.
nobody ever challenged me in terms of size-progressive-quality.
ok. i can live with that after getting to town with a release :-)
there's lots of other compos to explore.
however.
nice party, guys!!!
I don't understand how some pins cause serious damage on a tunnel that leads to the toilets and actually looks like that. but -hey- no problem by me. no big posters unless i bring the wall :-)
i'm really sorry 'bout 2011. nobody talked to me about that at all. wasn't it the orgas who advised me to use biros instead of felt pens ?.
nevermind.
@/
no posters for revision anymore.
i apologize to have caused trouble in any way.
and i apologize for trying to raise the gfx compos to a progressive level with my illustrations.
many people enjoyed them.
few are pissed about that.
nobody ever challenged me in terms of size-progressive-quality.
ok. i can live with that after getting to town with a release :-)
there's lots of other compos to explore.
however.
nice party, guys!!!
It's sad to see that some people destroy the party location with things that were intended for having fun with.
First of all, yes, I am one of those guys putting stickers on people, even without asking them before. I like stickers and i also put them on my things, like disk boxes and stuff. But they are really easy to remove there and it's not my intention to be rude to someone. If someone really hates that: Sorry. It was not meant to be rude. Just like a fun way to say "Hi". Just tell me you hate it and i won't sticker you again.
I also completely agree with scamp.
But:
Putting stickers on (not your own) things that might get destroyed by that is another thing in my opinion. We should all be able to know where a piece of plastic or paper with glue on the back might cause any damage, shouldn't we? Seriously. Think before you sticker anything, please.
And even if it doesn't destroy anything: Think about the fact that, at the end of the party, there won't be only your few stickers, so put them on things which are removed after the party anyways so the orga team doesn't need to spend ages removing all those stickers. I also can understand people getting annoyed by stickers on their hardware without asking them.
Putting stickers into toilets:
Honestly: No way. That's not just a rushed idea. That's fucking dickish behaviour.
"Oh hi. You set up an awesome party. Must be shitloads of work to do, even after it's over. We had lots of fun and we want to thank you for it by making you grab into the toilet!" Neat job dude. I don't want to have your mindset.
And please stop comparing stickers to weapons or anything else. If someone at the party threw a bottle at you, would you make the infodesk responsible for selling beer that makes them drunk and comes in a bottle they were able to throw with?
I don't think we need to answer those questions because we are not talking about them but about stickers.
Writing on property of others with permanent marker and leaving the responsibility for that to someone else... Well... I don't really know what to say about that. Nobody cares if you had sex in the sleeping area. And if you think you have to tell everyone, you could have asked Topy to print it on a shirt for you. At least you would have spent your money for it and not the money of others.
But this has nothing to do with stickers.
I can totally understand that the revision orgas are angry about work and costs caused by wrong placed stickers. The discussion should not be about banning stickers or making the people who bring stickers responsible for vandalism ( Which the first post didn't say anything about btw. It was about people causing damage to the location, mostly by using cheap stickers or placing them wrong! ).
Anyway. I think most visitors would be willing to donate to compensate that financial loss the vandalism caused. Even if they haven't done it. Which of course doesn't mean it is ok to damage the facility or anything!! We all love this party and don't want it or the organizers to get into trouble or make their work harder and annoying. Let's not make such things happen again, please!
First of all, yes, I am one of those guys putting stickers on people, even without asking them before. I like stickers and i also put them on my things, like disk boxes and stuff. But they are really easy to remove there and it's not my intention to be rude to someone. If someone really hates that: Sorry. It was not meant to be rude. Just like a fun way to say "Hi". Just tell me you hate it and i won't sticker you again.
I also completely agree with scamp.
But:
Putting stickers on (not your own) things that might get destroyed by that is another thing in my opinion. We should all be able to know where a piece of plastic or paper with glue on the back might cause any damage, shouldn't we? Seriously. Think before you sticker anything, please.
And even if it doesn't destroy anything: Think about the fact that, at the end of the party, there won't be only your few stickers, so put them on things which are removed after the party anyways so the orga team doesn't need to spend ages removing all those stickers. I also can understand people getting annoyed by stickers on their hardware without asking them.
Putting stickers into toilets:
Honestly: No way. That's not just a rushed idea. That's fucking dickish behaviour.
"Oh hi. You set up an awesome party. Must be shitloads of work to do, even after it's over. We had lots of fun and we want to thank you for it by making you grab into the toilet!" Neat job dude. I don't want to have your mindset.
And please stop comparing stickers to weapons or anything else. If someone at the party threw a bottle at you, would you make the infodesk responsible for selling beer that makes them drunk and comes in a bottle they were able to throw with?
I don't think we need to answer those questions because we are not talking about them but about stickers.
Writing on property of others with permanent marker and leaving the responsibility for that to someone else... Well... I don't really know what to say about that. Nobody cares if you had sex in the sleeping area. And if you think you have to tell everyone, you could have asked Topy to print it on a shirt for you. At least you would have spent your money for it and not the money of others.
But this has nothing to do with stickers.
I can totally understand that the revision orgas are angry about work and costs caused by wrong placed stickers. The discussion should not be about banning stickers or making the people who bring stickers responsible for vandalism ( Which the first post didn't say anything about btw. It was about people causing damage to the location, mostly by using cheap stickers or placing them wrong! ).
Anyway. I think most visitors would be willing to donate to compensate that financial loss the vandalism caused. Even if they haven't done it. Which of course doesn't mean it is ok to damage the facility or anything!! We all love this party and don't want it or the organizers to get into trouble or make their work harder and annoying. Let's not make such things happen again, please!
I was sofascening this year (and maybe next year aswell) but plan to do there again. and I have also been thinking of those stickers etc on parties. I would aswell be happy to donate something to cover the losses as I think the orgas does a very very good work.
so.. next time please: T H I M K ?
so.. next time please: T H I M K ?
So nie i know what is Happening Ehen Ian Not around. No docd - damage all over.
Damn iPhone autocorrect!!!!
I handed out a bunch of leftover NUANCE stickers. Hope they weren't used at places where they caused damage.
But stickers causing extra costs for a party are a good reason to NOT hand them out in the future. Even reduces costs for me. So it's possibly a win-win-situation.
But stickers causing extra costs for a party are a good reason to NOT hand them out in the future. Even reduces costs for me. So it's possibly a win-win-situation.
Just run a damage due diligence through the party place BEFORE prize giving and cut prizes accordingly.
Having organized my fair share of demoparties, I can only concur with the Revision sentiment at the heart of the issue: don't use shit quality stickers (= buy proper vinyl stickers that are actually removable) and don't be a dick (= don't place them everywhere, and think before you put them up).
Now: expecting drunk sceners to think before they slap a sticker on fragile wallpaper and such clearly isn't realistic, and therefore no solution either.
Now: expecting drunk sceners to think before they slap a sticker on fragile wallpaper and such clearly isn't realistic, and therefore no solution either.
what gloom says. also. balloons are cooler ;)
maali: I had a Kewlers-balloon with me to GDC :)
dixan: Cutting prizemoney? Nonsense, why should a compo winner be punished for the stupidity of some other drunk scener who abused stickers?
That being said, I'm really sad to hear that such crap even happened, seriously considering banning / limiting the use of stickers at Nordlicht as a result cos we wouldn't have the budget to compensate large damages to the property.
Make balloons, not stickers :)
SunSpire: because prizemoney is the only "flexible" budget of the party.
And I'm pretty sure nobody would insist on getting their prizemoney just to see next year's party being cancelled. Right? ;)
