Why is 99.9% of the releases from Pilgrimage utter crap?
category: residue [glöplog]
I'm about as newbie as they come.
(Bow down to your RTTY masters!!)
(Bow down to your RTTY masters!!)
troll: you, dear troll sir, have hard time distinguishing sarcasm from fake elitism. i strongly advise you to consult your local european scener for further information that shall gladly enlighten you like the buddha that has been spreading the word through expensive airplane trips to assembly to meet "THE VOICE".
spooky as it seems, phoenix, radman, whiteshade and sirgb seem to be alot more clued in on these hard to tell apart scene elitism from sarcastic remarks bits.
radman: pgm afterhours video owned btw :) now where's the new arts episode?
spooky as it seems, phoenix, radman, whiteshade and sirgb seem to be alot more clued in on these hard to tell apart scene elitism from sarcastic remarks bits.
radman: pgm afterhours video owned btw :) now where's the new arts episode?
on a more cheerfull sidenote:
evoke had painstation, pilgrimage had dancedancerevolution. both equally imensly disturbing to witness live!!
so, RESPECT for keeping up the tradition overseas!!
evoke had painstation, pilgrimage had dancedancerevolution. both equally imensly disturbing to witness live!!
so, RESPECT for keeping up the tradition overseas!!
here's my vote on the heated debate to move pilgrimage to europe -and reimburse worthy usa sceners for their trouble.
No, the problem is when 'sarcasm' goes from funny or entertaining to just plane retarded and asinine as it does around here.
You're right, I don't get elitism, sarcastic or otherwise.
I'll be quiet now, and not dig this any deeper. I'm sick of hearing about it all.
You're right, I don't get elitism, sarcastic or otherwise.
I'll be quiet now, and not dig this any deeper. I'm sick of hearing about it all.
The yanks are making demos again? Then we need new fixers.
"spooky as it seems, phoenix, radman, whiteshade and sirgb seem to be alot more clued in on these hard to tell apart scene elitism from sarcastic remarks bits."
well, all four of us have all been to european parties now. i guess that's the trick.
"evoke had painstation, pilgrimage had dancedancerevolution. both equally imensly disturbing to witness live!!"
depends who's playing.. there will occasionally be cute girls playing ddr, and people playing painstation that you really hate. :)
well, all four of us have all been to european parties now. i guess that's the trick.
"evoke had painstation, pilgrimage had dancedancerevolution. both equally imensly disturbing to witness live!!"
depends who's playing.. there will occasionally be cute girls playing ddr, and people playing painstation that you really hate. :)
whiteshade is actually english as far as i recon :)
andy: "well, all four of us have all been to european parties now. i guess that's the trick." yeh that was exactly my point.
gargaj: maybe born in england and moved to america then... hmm...
gargaj: maybe born in england and moved to america then... hmm...
andy: "well, all four of us have all been to european parties now. i guess that's the trick." yeh that was exactly my point.
gargaj: maybe born in england and moved to america then... hmm...
gargaj: maybe born in england and moved to america then... hmm...
and the doublepost filter might not work :D
No DDR compo works without Warp kicking everybody's ass at it.
shifter: do you mean Drink Drink Revolution?
I'll agree that the average quality of North American demos is lower than the average quality of European demos. I see three possible reasons for this:
1.) American sceners are not as hard-working as European sceners.
2.) American sceners are not as talented as European sceners.
3.) American demo groups do not work as effectively as European demo groups.
Option 1 may be true in some cases, such as the last-minute 4K io. In general, though, I think North American sceners work about as hard as European sceners. The Pilgrimage Invitation, for example, took about 6 months of concentrated effort to complete, with work going on even before that time. American sceners are certainly hard-working when they want to be.
Reason 2 is somewhat more true in general. Since our scene is still growing, many of our members are not as experienced as European sceners. Even the best groups, such as Consipracy, have a history of low-quality releases paving the way to their eventual greatness. As a scene, I think we are still collectively in the "testrun" stage. Each time we release a piece of crap, we learn from our mistakes and hopefully improve our future releases. Allow us to release crap, but offer useful criticism so that we can release less crap in the future.
The third reason, "American demo groups do not work as effectively as European demo groups," is true on two levels. In the first case, groups do not always have the right mix of people. Thom, for example, has been searching for a coder for many years. Eventually, he gave up and released a Werkkzeug demo on his own. The ideas and talent were there, but the group was not. On the other end of the scale are groups with a proper mix of talent but no common artistic vision. Because our scene is small, people who would not normally be in the same group are forced together to survive, creating unbalanced groups with incoherent productions. One group with this problem is the Northern Dragons. Fortunately, though, the Northern Dragons have grown to the point where they can afford to kick or suppress dissenting members. I see this as a good thing and expect it produce a stronger core group.
So, there you have it. You now have the full story why 99.9% of the releases from Pilgrimage are utter crap.
1.) American sceners are not as hard-working as European sceners.
2.) American sceners are not as talented as European sceners.
3.) American demo groups do not work as effectively as European demo groups.
Option 1 may be true in some cases, such as the last-minute 4K io. In general, though, I think North American sceners work about as hard as European sceners. The Pilgrimage Invitation, for example, took about 6 months of concentrated effort to complete, with work going on even before that time. American sceners are certainly hard-working when they want to be.
Reason 2 is somewhat more true in general. Since our scene is still growing, many of our members are not as experienced as European sceners. Even the best groups, such as Consipracy, have a history of low-quality releases paving the way to their eventual greatness. As a scene, I think we are still collectively in the "testrun" stage. Each time we release a piece of crap, we learn from our mistakes and hopefully improve our future releases. Allow us to release crap, but offer useful criticism so that we can release less crap in the future.
The third reason, "American demo groups do not work as effectively as European demo groups," is true on two levels. In the first case, groups do not always have the right mix of people. Thom, for example, has been searching for a coder for many years. Eventually, he gave up and released a Werkkzeug demo on his own. The ideas and talent were there, but the group was not. On the other end of the scale are groups with a proper mix of talent but no common artistic vision. Because our scene is small, people who would not normally be in the same group are forced together to survive, creating unbalanced groups with incoherent productions. One group with this problem is the Northern Dragons. Fortunately, though, the Northern Dragons have grown to the point where they can afford to kick or suppress dissenting members. I see this as a good thing and expect it produce a stronger core group.
So, there you have it. You now have the full story why 99.9% of the releases from Pilgrimage are utter crap.
*nods to most of that and shrugs at some of it.*
Option 1 is true, Americans are usually much fatter than Europeans so they move slower as well.
Option 2 is true, it's a wellknown fact that Americans are generally less talented than Europeans, simply because they are Americans (or Canadians, but that's the same anyway).
Option 3 is true, Americans spend far too much time defending "their" continent against the evil wrongdoers' flamey remarks.
You speak a lot of truth S_Tec! It'd almost make me think you're not as American as you pretend to be...
Option 2 is true, it's a wellknown fact that Americans are generally less talented than Europeans, simply because they are Americans (or Canadians, but that's the same anyway).
Option 3 is true, Americans spend far too much time defending "their" continent against the evil wrongdoers' flamey remarks.
You speak a lot of truth S_Tec! It'd almost make me think you're not as American as you pretend to be...
S Tec isn't American. He's from California, the home of the terminator! No wonder he sounds like such a radical ;)
Latest Wired issue: Arnold Schwarzenegger is apparently a good politician! Europeans should come to North America because there are political office vacancies.
Latest Wired issue: Arnold Schwarzenegger is apparently a good politician! Europeans should come to North America because there are political office vacancies.
Talking about Arnold, the atrocious actor reformed politician:
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=arnoldcoming.wmv
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=arnoldcoming.wmv
this summer.. *tdum tdum* double the action.. get down! *tdum tdum* triple the excitement.. get down again! *tdum tdum* arnold schwarzneger *tdum tdum* pilgrimage 2004 party report!
I just did an experiment. I went here and downloaded the 15 most recent 64K's off of Pouet. Guess what? Most are utter crap! If this is a representative sample of European scene, I'll have to revise my position on North American productions being below average.
*nods at all of that*
*looks at link*
*notices the first prod on the list is an ND-prod*
*rolls eyes and goes back to coding*
*notices the first prod on the list is an ND-prod*
*rolls eyes and goes back to coding*
hahahahaha...
;)
Boy, am I glad I missed this mess.
I agree with "a demoscener is measured by his productions, not his origin." Best quote ever. Some of the most historically revered coders in PC scene's history weren't "pure" scandinavian (swede/finn/etc.), like Statix (UK), Jare (Spain), Maxwood (Hungary), Tran (USA), etc.
I agree with "a demoscener is measured by his productions, not his origin." Best quote ever. Some of the most historically revered coders in PC scene's history weren't "pure" scandinavian (swede/finn/etc.), like Statix (UK), Jare (Spain), Maxwood (Hungary), Tran (USA), etc.