Escaping from google
category: offtopic [glöplog]
@skrebbel:
In case of Germany this "mediocre payed junior graduates" seem to work at Deutsche Bank AG and prepare the "white paper proposals" which get copy-pasted into legislative motions by the Ministry of Finance.
It WAS quite a (mainstream) media scoop last year.
In another issue, the the buddies of the foreign law firm of our esteemed ex-minister of Economics and ex-minister of Defense, now ex-politics (good riddance), Karl T. zu Guttenberg virtually wrote legislative papers for his Ministry of Economics that got issued in Parliament.
And those are just the most recent events.
But then again Germany is just a rather insignificant spec on the economic map of the EU and world finance and I'm just a bloody "conspiracy nutcase", isn't it ?!
Grow up, man
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All I can recommend on this "profiling the consumer" issue is to watch Adam Curtis' outstanding BBC documentary series "The Century of the Self".
It really diggs into this categorisation of consumer groups.
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in most countries, are typically relatively junior political science graduates, working at some ministry for a mediocre pay
In case of Germany this "mediocre payed junior graduates" seem to work at Deutsche Bank AG and prepare the "white paper proposals" which get copy-pasted into legislative motions by the Ministry of Finance.
It WAS quite a (mainstream) media scoop last year.
In another issue, the the buddies of the foreign law firm of our esteemed ex-minister of Economics and ex-minister of Defense, now ex-politics (good riddance), Karl T. zu Guttenberg virtually wrote legislative papers for his Ministry of Economics that got issued in Parliament.
And those are just the most recent events.
But then again Germany is just a rather insignificant spec on the economic map of the EU and world finance and I'm just a bloody "conspiracy nutcase", isn't it ?!
Grow up, man
-----------
All I can recommend on this "profiling the consumer" issue is to watch Adam Curtis' outstanding BBC documentary series "The Century of the Self".
It really diggs into this categorisation of consumer groups.
pretty ironic to link to a google service in this thread. jsyk!
i dont mind, though. how could i, when i use a prepaid card from netzklub to surf with my mobile. it's completely cost free, guess what's the product being sold here. the terms of service are written ambiguously and most likely mean that they scan all the traffic.
it scares me more, that i cant imagine what those profiles, that $company has about me, would be usefull for. i dont think im an easy target for advertisement and thats already my first mistake. i still dont think its about simple advertising.
@mot: what you have to protect is not as easy to answer as you make it. simply allowing it, without giving it proper thought makes it easy to abuse. saying there is nothing to exploited from is like security firms saying their code is secure, not exploitable. while this holds true often enough, by pure chance, this statement either cant be veryfied or is stated without any basis whatsoever, just to ease the consciens.
i dont mind, though. how could i, when i use a prepaid card from netzklub to surf with my mobile. it's completely cost free, guess what's the product being sold here. the terms of service are written ambiguously and most likely mean that they scan all the traffic.
it scares me more, that i cant imagine what those profiles, that $company has about me, would be usefull for. i dont think im an easy target for advertisement and thats already my first mistake. i still dont think its about simple advertising.
@mot: what you have to protect is not as easy to answer as you make it. simply allowing it, without giving it proper thought makes it easy to abuse. saying there is nothing to exploited from is like security firms saying their code is secure, not exploitable. while this holds true often enough, by pure chance, this statement either cant be veryfied or is stated without any basis whatsoever, just to ease the consciens.
Mot:
Yes, I hate the whole concept of flash cookies. I have a simple solution though: no flash installed on my main browser, and chrome is installed for when I need it (switching the browser ID to iPad makes most sites magically work without flash). I guess click-to-flash etc. should stop flash cookies too?
[quote]and from that they can deduce where you've been. Everybody does this as Collusion shows. Moreover, companies have no ethics, and they will handily exchange information about their users if there's profit in it for them. If you give some info to Apple and you think they won't exchange it with Microsoft, Facebook or Google you are deluded. To avoid this you need to take extreme measures, disable javascript, disable cookies and flash, to the effect of making internet surfing close to useless.[quote]
I don't think those companies are sharing information like that. First, because they're in competition, second because they're not supposed to and it'd be a massive anti-trust violation if they got caught - and for what benefit?
Besides, "not getting tracked" isn't my main goal. It's not to put too much information in the hands of any one company, especially one I trust less each year.
Ok, and if none of that applies and I just object to a company getting more information on me that I'm happy with, and using it for commercial reasons I dislike? That's a reason to leave that company, right?
Ok, so I use quite a few apple products (and make a decent part of my living writing software for them). And I'm switching my email to apple's service, yes. That's a simple case of convenience - I already had that account open (but mostly unused), it does the job, and as a bonus so far as I know apple aren't scanning my mail for marketing purposes.
Where are apple telling me to distrust google though? I'm getting that entirely from other places - mainly privacy-related stories on news sites like the register, and from following the patent wars pretty closely through sites like FOSS patents. I don't like where they're going with privacy, and I *really* don't like their position on software patents. They're actually managing to make apple + microsoft look good when it comes to patents - and apple + MS aren't exactly well liked for this ;)
No offence taken. I think you've misunderstood some of my reasons though :)
Actually I know a couple of people I'd class as serious apple fans, and I have way more apple stuff than either of them - yet I'd say I'm not really a 'fan', while they clearly are. One of them actually went to see steve jobs do a keynote once, really loves pretty much anything apple makes... yet uses a PC, because it does pretty much all the stuff he wants (mainly games + CAD) much better.
The other guy watches all of the keynotes + product launches on video, watches all the adverts online, and seems to believe pretty much everything they say (and seems to believe android is near enough unusable and windows is totally unsecured and unstable). Sound clueless? He's a senior network manager with a *massive* amount of IT knowledge running a network of around 8,000 PCs.
Strange, no? I guess it's like football, some people need to pick one team only, and believe that team is the best even when they're bottom of the league :)
Personally, I really hate the keynote presentations. Sometimes I have to know what's announced (like the ipad3 lately - one of my apps will be broken on that, and I need to know what the camera, GPU + screen res are going to be to get working on it). I avoid the video like the plague though, and find some site reporting on it so I can see the useful facts without all the "magical, best ever, revolutionary" crap :) The only adverts I watch are the iPad + iPhone ones - with the sound turned off. Do that and they show the device actually being used, which is what all adverts should be like.
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1) You can't avoid being tracked or information harvested:
Even if you don't have a facebook or a google account, you will eventually visit a site that has google javascript on it, will send you cookies, flash cookies (the worst kind)
Yes, I hate the whole concept of flash cookies. I have a simple solution though: no flash installed on my main browser, and chrome is installed for when I need it (switching the browser ID to iPad makes most sites magically work without flash). I guess click-to-flash etc. should stop flash cookies too?
[quote]and from that they can deduce where you've been. Everybody does this as Collusion shows. Moreover, companies have no ethics, and they will handily exchange information about their users if there's profit in it for them. If you give some info to Apple and you think they won't exchange it with Microsoft, Facebook or Google you are deluded. To avoid this you need to take extreme measures, disable javascript, disable cookies and flash, to the effect of making internet surfing close to useless.[quote]
I don't think those companies are sharing information like that. First, because they're in competition, second because they're not supposed to and it'd be a massive anti-trust violation if they got caught - and for what benefit?
Besides, "not getting tracked" isn't my main goal. It's not to put too much information in the hands of any one company, especially one I trust less each year.
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2) What are you protecting anyway?
If you are the average joe who emails his buddies about the beers they had yesterday, vote for a centric, leftish or rightish political party, take notes of his shopping and listen to some music, guess what? You are one of a zillion and you have nothing really interesting to the "bad guys". You are not special. If on the other hand you are using the internet to overthrow the government, learn how to make bombs, visit far-left/far-right political material, or engage in child pornography, financial scams, tax evasion and any illegal or questionable activity whatsoever, every single one of those services will turn you in, Apple included. You shouldnt be using the internet in the first place.
Ok, and if none of that applies and I just object to a company getting more information on me that I'm happy with, and using it for commercial reasons I dislike? That's a reason to leave that company, right?
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What I see from my end is an Apple fanboy. "Google is getting too powerful, lets switch to Apple stuff instead". I see many people like you everyday. Their minds have been poisoned by Mr Jobs rhetoric and they have lost the capacity to think straight. If you have stuff to hide, Apple is as evil as everyone else, Google included. Your delusion that Google only is evil is the result of Apple marketing trying to eat into Google's profits by using yourself an unpaid sales drone. Note that all companies do this trick, its just that Apple has recently been more active than the others.
Ok, so I use quite a few apple products (and make a decent part of my living writing software for them). And I'm switching my email to apple's service, yes. That's a simple case of convenience - I already had that account open (but mostly unused), it does the job, and as a bonus so far as I know apple aren't scanning my mail for marketing purposes.
Where are apple telling me to distrust google though? I'm getting that entirely from other places - mainly privacy-related stories on news sites like the register, and from following the patent wars pretty closely through sites like FOSS patents. I don't like where they're going with privacy, and I *really* don't like their position on software patents. They're actually managing to make apple + microsoft look good when it comes to patents - and apple + MS aren't exactly well liked for this ;)
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And the saddest part of all is that, if your brain has been rotten by corporate marketing beyond a certain point, there's nothing I can say or do that can make you snap out of it. That stuff is as potent as lobotomy.
In closing, please don't take offence in what I said. I have absolutely no problem in you usign Apple products and services. I only have a problem if you do it for the wrong reasons.
No offence taken. I think you've misunderstood some of my reasons though :)
Actually I know a couple of people I'd class as serious apple fans, and I have way more apple stuff than either of them - yet I'd say I'm not really a 'fan', while they clearly are. One of them actually went to see steve jobs do a keynote once, really loves pretty much anything apple makes... yet uses a PC, because it does pretty much all the stuff he wants (mainly games + CAD) much better.
The other guy watches all of the keynotes + product launches on video, watches all the adverts online, and seems to believe pretty much everything they say (and seems to believe android is near enough unusable and windows is totally unsecured and unstable). Sound clueless? He's a senior network manager with a *massive* amount of IT knowledge running a network of around 8,000 PCs.
Strange, no? I guess it's like football, some people need to pick one team only, and believe that team is the best even when they're bottom of the league :)
Personally, I really hate the keynote presentations. Sometimes I have to know what's announced (like the ipad3 lately - one of my apps will be broken on that, and I need to know what the camera, GPU + screen res are going to be to get working on it). I avoid the video like the plague though, and find some site reporting on it so I can see the useful facts without all the "magical, best ever, revolutionary" crap :) The only adverts I watch are the iPad + iPhone ones - with the sound turned off. Do that and they show the device actually being used, which is what all adverts should be like.
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yet uses a PC, because it does pretty much all the stuff he wants (mainly games + CAD)
So. Much. Apple. vs. PC. Irony. Win.
;P
You can't escape from google translate either....
so diese Julia hat "transformiert" ihren Körper ... in welcher Weise? daran zu denken, es macht mich hornig!
Na das is' ja wirklich grobartig !
ehehe, here is a grobartige, hornige ontopic parody by The Onion
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In case of Germany this "mediocre payed junior graduates" seem to work at Deutsche Bank AG and prepare the "white paper proposals" which get copy-pasted into legislative motions by the Ministry of Finance.
It WAS quite a (mainstream) media scoop last year.
skrebble: you got owned :D
Always amusing when the ill-informed accuse the informed of being conspiracy-nuts.
Happened just now!
I guess Google is trying to escape from me now...
I started using the NoScript addon for Firefox. I block google-analytics, amongst many others.
We could make it a trending topic #stop stalking us google.
If you don't say anything, then nothing will happen. The feedback is important in the end :)
If you don't say anything, then nothing will happen. The feedback is important in the end :)
Using "Disconnect" and "HTTPS everywhere" with Chrome.
Related:
Pouet.net start-page has a Google Analytics tracker. WAT? How about throwing the fucker out??!
Related:
Pouet.net start-page has a Google Analytics tracker. WAT? How about throwing the fucker out??!
Lots of recent bad decisions from Google such as dropping XMPP server interop (luckily my GTalk contacts don't seem to be affected by this... yet?) make me dislike them even more now... People, don't rely on a company who is known for dropping services that don't make money and apparently is about to lock in its users even more.
@Spin: That´s a quite funny suggestion regrding that it´s stil a goggle browser your using ;)
Spin: I like Google Analytics as a product and use it on all the websites I use. The fact that some people is paranoid with their privacy doesn't make it a worse product.
You can block it on your browser if you wish, but suggesting site owners (who may find it as a very valuable tool) to remove it? It's a bit absurd :-)
That's like you not liking beef and going around every restaurant suggesting it should be out of their menus.
You can block it on your browser if you wish, but suggesting site owners (who may find it as a very valuable tool) to remove it? It's a bit absurd :-)
That's like you not liking beef and going around every restaurant suggesting it should be out of their menus.
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I like Google Analytics as a product and use it on all the websites I use.
And the NSA would like to thank you for that. It makes tracking non-terrorists so much easier.
Why not just quit the Internet, then you don't need to worry about it all...
TheT: if I had something to hide from the NSA, or anything the NSA might be interested in, probably Google Analytics on websites would be the least of my problems
Jcl: Like T$ correctly pointed out, as as chrome (and btw GMail, Maps, Android...) user i'm not exactly wearing the "tinfoil-hat". But that is a personal OPT-IN decision.
And clearly GA is a convenient tool: I just find it a bit rude to as a host (=website owner) transfer your whole guest list (=others data) to other people (=google and everyone who has access to their data) without asking. And then tell them if they don't want it, they just shouldn't tell their name or wear a mask. But maybe that is just me...
And clearly GA is a convenient tool: I just find it a bit rude to as a host (=website owner) transfer your whole guest list (=others data) to other people (=google and everyone who has access to their data) without asking. And then tell them if they don't want it, they just shouldn't tell their name or wear a mask. But maybe that is just me...
Spin, giving your information (of any kind) to others is basically what you do everytime you use *any* kind of third-party service... that includes sending an e-mail if you don't run your own SMTP, making a phone call unless you run your own carrier, basically paying any kind of tax unless you live in your own country, and even opening the water faucet unless you are running your own water company -yes, the amount of water you consume is information too, and your local water company (unless it's a really big one) probably shares that information with other parties (external invoicing or bill-printing companies, and whatnot).
Having people use third-party services is a common thing... it's needed for the development of a society (yes, at the expense of some privacy, I reckon... but I think *such levels* of privacy are overrated)... running your own services for everything is just not feasible or economically manageable, and giving part of your information to those third-party services is unavoidable (again, for a developed society: one could live under a rock if they wish).
Having people use third-party services is a common thing... it's needed for the development of a society (yes, at the expense of some privacy, I reckon... but I think *such levels* of privacy are overrated)... running your own services for everything is just not feasible or economically manageable, and giving part of your information to those third-party services is unavoidable (again, for a developed society: one could live under a rock if they wish).
Jcl: it's always a bit of give and take, and what you're giving here is your visitor's privacy in exchange for some useful info on how your site is performing. It's just a case of how much giving there is each way.
Personal view on this particular one: Up to about a year ago I would have been happy with it (and indeed, I used google analytics myself then).
Now, I think the balance has gone the other way. It's not that google is recording which sites you visit to learn more about you (they did this a year back, I accepted it). It's that they now link that info with the content of your email (if you have gmail), conversations / friends (google+, gtalk, address book etc.), and so on for all their other services.
Basically, it's gone from "showing you ads based on the sites you visit" to "building a profile on you based on a huge amount of data". I don't want anyone building a profile on me based on such wide ranging info, regardless of whether it's google or the NSA :)
Personal view on this particular one: Up to about a year ago I would have been happy with it (and indeed, I used google analytics myself then).
Now, I think the balance has gone the other way. It's not that google is recording which sites you visit to learn more about you (they did this a year back, I accepted it). It's that they now link that info with the content of your email (if you have gmail), conversations / friends (google+, gtalk, address book etc.), and so on for all their other services.
Basically, it's gone from "showing you ads based on the sites you visit" to "building a profile on you based on a huge amount of data". I don't want anyone building a profile on me based on such wide ranging info, regardless of whether it's google or the NSA :)