pouët.net

okkie: poop in a jar

about animation, look at, for example, Half-Bit Cheese's stuff. it's all precalc. it has its own category: wild demo. it's still kick-ass demoscene productions.

Now hold on for a minute -- would it? I mean it's the application of math on, what's basically a very rough vector shape.

This is important. Let's get this right people. The future of the demoscene depends on this.

Is that an answer to my question or an order? o_O

@photon: ?LATELY? you caught some people doing precalcs... Come on...
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=2965
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=16231
And we can have thousands of examples. Did you compute your sinuses realtime in the good ol'times?

What about the following definition then?
demos are like movies or animations, but involving some programming executed at runtime!

@lsl: is French realtime that bad? ;p

Totally agree with that!
Not only will it point out animations, but also breakthrough in tiny sizecoding (this one was shown without hints on the filesize in a mixed atari category!). Pre-rendering at runtime will not show this way, but at least in this case some effort was made on the (maybe very bad) rendering routines.

baah: most movies have programmers nowadays. just look at the credits.

I think you are taking the easy way out by trying to define demos so minimally. Providing a more detailed cultural, historical and technological context is probably the only way to explain it properly.

I.E. lamers need not apply! For sceners by sceners!

demos: art for nerds

Demos: angry nerds

@xernobyl: ... executed at runtime!

How about "a nice animation that somehow, for no really good reason, was made by programmers".

"programmers failing to make art"

skrebbel: "...and graphicians*."

"A non-commercial celebration of computational technology and creativity."
Posting the prod size on the title card would be a good move. Especially when size categories get collapsed in with full-blown demos(as happens frequently at small parties).

demos: realtime non-interactive graphics

demos: computer art not made for people outside of the scene

demos: demos.

Is it me or some sceners don't want people outside of the scene to come and show their skills? That's weird as a lot of influences are coming from outside the scene.

xernobyl, "graphician" isn't even a word. plus, such a large percentage of the demoscene musicians and graphicians do coding for a living that the claim holds, I believe (waves to kaneel!).

@rez: "demos: computer art not made for people outside of the (demo)scene" is a circular definition... knl's one is better in that kind.

skrebbel: when we went on the outreach trip in 2007, we accidentally said "graphician" while at Industrial Light and Magic and Lucas Films/Arts, and one guy came up to us afterwards just to tell us he was going to order new business cards from his boss and put "graphician" on it, because he had never heard such an awesome description of his job before. Graphics-magician -- graphician. :)

skrebbel: that's why it has a *

I'm a codician then...?

Still not after a definition, it's what we make it, ongoing. That's sort of the reason for this thread.

Some recent demos are animplayers (as well as that Spaceballs movie showcasing a linedraw loop that I confused with an AGA demo years ago, and likely not few compowinners over the years. Animplayer demos are boring and destructive to me, as they deplete oldskool platforms of new effects and tech, but I can usually tell, so it's not a problem for me.

You could say "Well, you code your fucking morally correct demos then and we'll still vote for the more impressive animplayer demos".


And this is fine with me. (last time I repeat this)


The thing is though, I've praised the wrong demo, coder, and group (again, according to me) by mistake twice now, because information was hidden from me. I've suggested two minimal solutions (I see IC sees what I see :) thanks for support and yes, size display works both ways). If I see an impressive demo from a well-known group I don't want to assume that everything that's impressive is animplayer. So just as we might type "track demo" or "4K intro" on the compo titles, I want to know if I'm watching a 1MB demo or a 30MB one.


I guess the nub is whether demosceners are at all interested in the "doing something great within the limitations", and "like music videos, but calculated by the computer". With the 4K, 64K, and Wild compo categories I must conclude that most of us are, and I just do see how that fits in with hiding size and precalc times at compo time, or why not everyone would support, nay demand!! :) showing it instead.

baah: Sine tables (ah, that age-old excuse) is not what I'm talking about. The sine table is not the effect. When some table IS the effect, it either takes time or space. I'm just asking to show both.

I exhaustively explained what I meant with precalc/animplayer, but didn't mention the prods in question. If that made it seem like the old argument (which I still believe holds btw, but that's off-topic) to you I'm sorry, but maybe you can figure out which ones...? :)

That should be "...,and I just don't see how..." *

And I found the lost paranthesis.

Here it was --> )

cut the crap, we all know that a demo is nothing more than a glorified screensaver.