Unlimited Detail Technology?
category: offtopic [glöplog]
I guess this works well if you want your game to be built up from square modules... highly detailed and articulate, though! They could make ROTT 2 with it.
IT'S A TRAP
Unlimited Demo Technology featuring Nuclear Fusion starfields and Cuprous raster bars.
unlimited retail technology
Notch says it as it is :)
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/8386977075/its-a-scam
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/8386977075/its-a-scam
as i have a lot of stuff going on today in the office i can't watch this 40 minute interview with euclideon right now, but i thought it might be interesting....
i'm looking forward to watch it this evening, though i'm very reserved about that as a whole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVB1ayT6Fdc
i'm looking forward to watch it this evening, though i'm very reserved about that as a whole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVB1ayT6Fdc
Seen this yesterday. It's pretty cool, there is a realtime demo at the 20 minute mark and they also show some older version of their software that has some crude skeleton animation in it, yet the questions about dynamic lighting and memory consumption are still not fully answered yet. But at least it shows that it's real and runs on a laptop.
They spend 15 minutes or so, just talking about notch (also dissing minecraft for looking "ugly" ;)) and his claims. They basically say "he's wrong and doesn't know what he's talking about".
Quote:
Notch says it as it is :)
They spend 15 minutes or so, just talking about notch (also dissing minecraft for looking "ugly" ;)) and his claims. They basically say "he's wrong and doesn't know what he's talking about".
"And we thought, instead of give them a file and tell them to download something, why don't we just put it on YouTube instead to make it easier for people to get a hold of".
Yes, because when you're trying to prove your "technology" isn't shit, that's exactly the route you should take.
Seriously - they discuss their YouTube _rankings_ for 5 minutes.
Yes, because when you're trying to prove your "technology" isn't shit, that's exactly the route you should take.
Seriously - they discuss their YouTube _rankings_ for 5 minutes.
Don't waste your time on the video pro posted. They keep talking about it like it's fucking magic, keep using the term 'unlimited' and don't really address any of the criticisms raised. Except showing a 7 year old video with skeletal animation.
It really pisses me off that he keeps saying that it's "super fast because they just use a search algorithm, so they only consider one atom per pixel". No REALLY?
It really pisses me off that he keeps saying that it's "super fast because they just use a search algorithm, so they only consider one atom per pixel". No REALLY?
You're right about the video Pro posted - if you want to know all about this amazing technology (which isn't rubbish at all!), just watch this instead - she's got the info you need: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxE4QTPs3Zg
mmh ok. it's realtime. still have no clue how they store that much points in there. no problem to do some random variations of one and the same point cloud tho. as the leaves of the palmtree look pretty much like the grass. stuff like that. maybe it's just lots of pointer arrays and lod. the rest could be interpolating and a glimpse of a directional magic.
thanks for the 40-minute saver dude
i posted it to a couple of former colleagues and i heard it's about dead bodies, a guy in a supermarket and making fun of notch while scamming money from the government so i'll watch it probably nevertheless tonight
sounds better than planet of the apes :) as a fiction movie, though
i posted it to a couple of former colleagues and i heard it's about dead bodies, a guy in a supermarket and making fun of notch while scamming money from the government so i'll watch it probably nevertheless tonight
sounds better than planet of the apes :) as a fiction movie, though
While I enjoyed the video and I like such things even as pure tech demos and still want this project to walk, I don't like the terminology and lame explanations that graphics people might cringe with, from LOD being level of distance to explaining geometric tessalation with my favorite PinArt board :).
Yeah, see this pinart, I can make with my hand shapes, it's like a heightmap, that's similar to geometric tessalation, the bumps and stuff,.. ahhh :P
The same kind of facepalming yourself occures with his other videos sometimes, so it's nicer to watch it without sound :P
But I want this thing to walk, sincerely. The most crazy stuff are started by crazy people that most cannot take seriously :)
Yeah, see this pinart, I can make with my hand shapes, it's like a heightmap, that's similar to geometric tessalation, the bumps and stuff,.. ahhh :P
The same kind of facepalming yourself occures with his other videos sometimes, so it's nicer to watch it without sound :P
But I want this thing to walk, sincerely. The most crazy stuff are started by crazy people that most cannot take seriously :)
I believe they are using an octree or similar, but instead of raycasting it pixel by pixel, I guess it is projected.
Something like this:
1) Create a list and insert the root octree node
2) Set a pointer P at the start of the list
3) Pick the node at P
4) Rotate and translate the cube bounding box of the node according to camera position to get 8 3d coordinates
5) If the min z value of the coordinates is lower than 0 (in the back of the eye/camera), go to point 11
6) Apply 2d perspective transform into x and y of the 8 3d coordinates
7) If the perspective projection is outside screen, go to point 11
8) If the width and height of the projection with perspective are lower than 1 pixel, draw it with z-buffer and supercovering (it can be 1x1 pixels, 2x1, 1x2 or 2x2 pixels) and go to point 11
9) If there are no child nodes on the octree node (so it is a leaf), splatter it (draw a rectangle of w*h pixels with z-buffer and supercovering, and go to point 11
10) Push all the occupied child nodes to the list
11) P++
12) If P<list.length go to 3
Something like this:
1) Create a list and insert the root octree node
2) Set a pointer P at the start of the list
3) Pick the node at P
4) Rotate and translate the cube bounding box of the node according to camera position to get 8 3d coordinates
5) If the min z value of the coordinates is lower than 0 (in the back of the eye/camera), go to point 11
6) Apply 2d perspective transform into x and y of the 8 3d coordinates
7) If the perspective projection is outside screen, go to point 11
8) If the width and height of the projection with perspective are lower than 1 pixel, draw it with z-buffer and supercovering (it can be 1x1 pixels, 2x1, 1x2 or 2x2 pixels) and go to point 11
9) If there are no child nodes on the octree node (so it is a leaf), splatter it (draw a rectangle of w*h pixels with z-buffer and supercovering, and go to point 11
10) Push all the occupied child nodes to the list
11) P++
12) If P<list.length go to 3
Watch the video. You finally see the guy the crazy voice belongs to ;)
There's not much new stuff shown that's not in the previous videos. Also their world is so repetitive that calling it 'unlimited detail' sounds like an insult. They have ~20 different objects there. No wonder storage requirements are not over the top and search is quite fast...
Anyway. I hope they put in proper shading (not only ambient/diffuse), light sources (more than 1), shadows (more than 1 level) and AO, reflection (not just ground-level mirroring of geometry) and animation and come back with something awesome hat still runs on an i7 Laptop in 1024x768. I wish them the best of luck.
There's not much new stuff shown that's not in the previous videos. Also their world is so repetitive that calling it 'unlimited detail' sounds like an insult. They have ~20 different objects there. No wonder storage requirements are not over the top and search is quite fast...
Anyway. I hope they put in proper shading (not only ambient/diffuse), light sources (more than 1), shadows (more than 1 level) and AO, reflection (not just ground-level mirroring of geometry) and animation and come back with something awesome hat still runs on an i7 Laptop in 1024x768. I wish them the best of luck.
They won't, because they can't.
Uhmmm... I think I missed ordering octree child nodes by z and having a quadtree z-buffer...
DONT FLY INTO THE ELEPHANT.
Quote:
They won't, because they can't.
I love how matter-of-fact-ly you state that. As if you've thoroughly studied their source code, understood all implications and side effects and came to that conclusion in a matter of minutes. I don't like the ha-I-know-this guys, who have little to no credentials on the topic, prematurely jumping to conclusions, just like notch.
Fact is, nobody really knows what's up. We can speculate about SVOs and their "search engine" and "atoms" (all those term might be repackaged and slightly misleading), but until they explain themselves a lot clearer and address the obvious challenges, everything is more or less speculation. And as it is, they simple have no reason to explain themselves. Their only crime so far is to make videos that make them look unprofessional (and by extension, slightly scammy).
tomaes: Notch's / KeyJ's points still stand solid though.
I guess there's a chance that their claims actually hold, and that this is not just marketing clumsiness, but marketing BRILLIANCE. Get everybody all riled up :-)
Yeah, no sign of anything non-block based (he even refers to being "between bricks" at one point) still. Even so, the realtime demo was pretty stunning. I'd be happy with that kind of rendering even if it is totally block based with fixed lighting and the characters end up rendered with polygons in the traditional way :)
