Anarchy in The EU
category: offtopic [glöplog]
Absolutely fair call Shifter. About 20% of my superannuation got wiped when the "global financial crisis" hit - probably almost the opposite percentage that a lot of my fund managers CEO's bonuses went up. (Just a guess).
Scary how politicians and financial managers haven't figured out yet that the revolution is happening & they're about to be put up against the wall. Eventually.
Maybe we should go back to stuffing our mattresses?
Scary how politicians and financial managers haven't figured out yet that the revolution is happening & they're about to be put up against the wall. Eventually.
Maybe we should go back to stuffing our mattresses?
rasmus - I preferred my soundtrack.
Well, globally, it's a fair correction that is happening now under our eyes, the politicians have passed the global crisis bank's mistakes to the taxpayers, who get pissed off, for good reasons.
The banksters are still in place, the same people who did mistakes can repeat them now as a result. The system needs a good cleanup from all the lobbyist and so on.
And yes, i guess making a company to sell off end-of-the-world shelters is going to be a winner in 2012! ;)
The banksters are still in place, the same people who did mistakes can repeat them now as a result. The system needs a good cleanup from all the lobbyist and so on.
And yes, i guess making a company to sell off end-of-the-world shelters is going to be a winner in 2012! ;)
Stuffing your mattresses won't work either. Maybe buy gold or a place for yourself to live in, something lasting, while your money is still worth shit...
Money is just paper people have agreed on to have a value. It is nothing of real value. An apple is an apple and stays an apple.
Just a bunch of random semi-connected ramblings:
Corruption, nepotism and greed are definitely a problem here. The thing is that nowadays everything is much more large-scale, national, even global, so more harm can be done...
Plus the system is shit. Think growth. How can a company grow and grow and grow every year?! You need to make an investment to make more profit, you get money from investors to invest in new machines/production capacities. At some point you fire workers etc. just to stay profitable, to satisfy the investors, because they want their returns/profits and mostly don't give a fark about the company in general. It's a vicious cycle imo.
The greek economy was thriving because lots foreign money (credits/loans) came in as an investment for companies making investments to make more profit. That has changed now. The banks don't believe there's any profit to made. They won't lend greece money.
This is capitalism... It's a general problem. Countries/Governments are selling/privatizing their land and infrastructure. Buildings, roads, railroads, police, fire brigades and whatnot. To a certain extent that my be ok, but they loose control. And when a thing/"company" that's needed goes bankrupt the state/the people have to bail them out with their money... WTF?!
It's not just greece. It's everywhere.
The US also doesn't look that good. Their debt is piling up like crazy. If (or rather WHEN) they go down, we're all in deep shit, like we've already seen in the last financial crisis...
Side note: I'm not really radically left-wing or anything. I'm just amazed by the fucked-up system we're living in and don't think this will go on forever.
Money is just paper people have agreed on to have a value. It is nothing of real value. An apple is an apple and stays an apple.
Just a bunch of random semi-connected ramblings:
Corruption, nepotism and greed are definitely a problem here. The thing is that nowadays everything is much more large-scale, national, even global, so more harm can be done...
Plus the system is shit. Think growth. How can a company grow and grow and grow every year?! You need to make an investment to make more profit, you get money from investors to invest in new machines/production capacities. At some point you fire workers etc. just to stay profitable, to satisfy the investors, because they want their returns/profits and mostly don't give a fark about the company in general. It's a vicious cycle imo.
The greek economy was thriving because lots foreign money (credits/loans) came in as an investment for companies making investments to make more profit. That has changed now. The banks don't believe there's any profit to made. They won't lend greece money.
This is capitalism... It's a general problem. Countries/Governments are selling/privatizing their land and infrastructure. Buildings, roads, railroads, police, fire brigades and whatnot. To a certain extent that my be ok, but they loose control. And when a thing/"company" that's needed goes bankrupt the state/the people have to bail them out with their money... WTF?!
It's not just greece. It's everywhere.
The US also doesn't look that good. Their debt is piling up like crazy. If (or rather WHEN) they go down, we're all in deep shit, like we've already seen in the last financial crisis...
Side note: I'm not really radically left-wing or anything. I'm just amazed by the fucked-up system we're living in and don't think this will go on forever.
The people of greece should burn banks instead of beating up policemen...
I have a friend that is down in greece right now for vacation. He told me that the people talk about the topic, because the workers that earn 1k Euros a month are hitted hard by 30% more Tax, but the people that earn 3k Euros because they work for a goverment are whining but can live with the cut...
But basicly everybody is calm and the trouble is only in the center of athen and the media hypes it a lot...
But basicly everybody is calm and the trouble is only in the center of athen and the media hypes it a lot...
I have been watching some of the riots and the greek police are employing a somewhat novel strategy to say the least - they seem to be perfectly happy to run off one or two officers to try and beat up some rioter who seems to be alone. That MIGHT be working for them, but in Denmark that would be a very obvious trap, and impossible to assert any form of control that way.
Here the police sometimes advance in squads of at least 5-10 during riots, and usually a whole flank of 30-50 officers supported by riot wagons. Just wondering about the strategies thats all - maybe the greek police are as incompetent as their politicians ;)?
Here the police sometimes advance in squads of at least 5-10 during riots, and usually a whole flank of 30-50 officers supported by riot wagons. Just wondering about the strategies thats all - maybe the greek police are as incompetent as their politicians ;)?
Is somebody here who can explain me why the Greeks are making riots? Why are they against the austerity package and long for a national bankruptcy? Once there is national bankruptcy, no salaries and no rents can be paid any more...
Adok: I think they do not recognize your premise of either the package or bankruptcy; they'd like the banks, the politicians and the rich people to pay up, since they were the ones who profited the most from what got Greece into this mess.
I can understand why they're angry. They worked and haven't contributed to the crisis, but now they're paying for it. This may not be to whole truth as they may have benefited from the thriving economy, nice pensions etc.
But still this crisis is really not caused by the taxpayers that now have to pay up for that shit...
But still this crisis is really not caused by the taxpayers that now have to pay up for that shit...
Quote:
An apple is an apple and stays an apple.
That was true... a few thousand years ago - things tend to complicate when an apple is first a apple then a juice then a flavor then a brand logo.
Just 'cause you can see the walls and roof of your home it doesn't mean nobody isn't going to break in your house, steal your apple, your juice, your flavor and your mac.
Everything is a social construction and as evolution points out, grouping and forming bonds with peers is the only way to insure your survival.
Mr.Dingo: OK. But then the people should not destroy everything, but force the politicians to enact adequate laws.
As I heard it is not only about the rich people. There are many professions who do not pay taxes, and the public officials have large privileges. What shall happen to them?
As I heard it is not only about the rich people. There are many professions who do not pay taxes, and the public officials have large privileges. What shall happen to them?
I think "destroying everything" is their way of forcing the politicians to enact adequate laws :p I'd say that the rioters have no other way of expressing their opinion that they feel are being listened to. Remember that having a vote is not in any way the same as having a say.
The people rioting in Athens are just soccer hooligans playing revolutionary. I hope the police kills each and every one of them or that they die in the fires they start.
I know a lot of Greeks living outside Greece (University), and they all tell me the same - corruption, tax evasion, and nepotism it's the mentality of many Greek people and permiates all layers of society. Everybody wants to be socialist but only if the system works in their favour. How can you be surprised that your country goes to fuck when every day of the week you help it to move a little bit further in that direction? It _is_ your own fucking fault, stop blaming everybody else.
Stop complaining about the politics of the people you voted into office, stop blaming the countries that are supporting you, start paying your taxes, and get the fuck back to work.
I know a lot of Greeks living outside Greece (University), and they all tell me the same - corruption, tax evasion, and nepotism it's the mentality of many Greek people and permiates all layers of society. Everybody wants to be socialist but only if the system works in their favour. How can you be surprised that your country goes to fuck when every day of the week you help it to move a little bit further in that direction? It _is_ your own fucking fault, stop blaming everybody else.
Stop complaining about the politics of the people you voted into office, stop blaming the countries that are supporting you, start paying your taxes, and get the fuck back to work.
Quote:
That was true... a few thousand years ago - things tend to complicate when an apple is first a apple then a juice then a flavor then a brand logo.
Just 'cause you can see the walls and roof of your home it doesn't mean nobody isn't going to break in your house, steal your apple, your juice, your flavor and your mac.
Everything is a social construction and as evolution points out, grouping and forming bonds with peers is the only way to insure your survival.
My main point was that money only has a "virtual" value. It is nothing of true value. It is a means of easily exchanging things and services...
Once your money is only good for wiping your arse your can still eat the apple and not starve.
Inopia: Sound a bit harsh, but you might have a point. Dunno...
:D
why are rich people rich? because they are greedy. they take more than they need, knowingly and willingly out of pure hatred killing thousands of people and destroying millions of lifes just so they can sit on money they will never be able to spend.
thousands of people are killed because of this behaviour which evolved during the stoneage which helped back then to survival, but now is 120% out of time and only malicious to our society. people are not going to starve because there is to few to eat. people starve because they can not pay for it, because those greedos take everything.
so we see rich people are massmurderes, but only because they don't pull the trigger and found ways to indoctrinate the masses noone threats them what they deserve. the only rational reaction to those rich people is to kill them off like malicious strain of bacillus. because of them millions of people are killed. so why not kill off those few anomalys and have a chance for a better future?
and if others try to take their spots kill those off too. kill them all off until no greedy person is left on earth.
thousands of people are killed because of this behaviour which evolved during the stoneage which helped back then to survival, but now is 120% out of time and only malicious to our society. people are not going to starve because there is to few to eat. people starve because they can not pay for it, because those greedos take everything.
so we see rich people are massmurderes, but only because they don't pull the trigger and found ways to indoctrinate the masses noone threats them what they deserve. the only rational reaction to those rich people is to kill them off like malicious strain of bacillus. because of them millions of people are killed. so why not kill off those few anomalys and have a chance for a better future?
and if others try to take their spots kill those off too. kill them all off until no greedy person is left on earth.
I see... Kill everyone. And then? Communism didn't work. Socialism didn't work. What now?
I said kill greedy people, not everyone, but you can't read, like always…
Does capitalism work? No. Yet it still sustains.
Does capitalism work? No. Yet it still sustains.
"like always". uhum.
How is "kill everyone" different from "kill the greedy". Who isn't greedy? The poor? So rich people are always greedy. Riiiiight...
How is "kill everyone" different from "kill the greedy". Who isn't greedy? The poor? So rich people are always greedy. Riiiiight...
Inopia (and others): stop seeing things (in Greece) as black and white. The situation is extremely complex and schizoid (issues going a long way back to the war and even before that to our fascist dictatorship in the 30s). At some point along the line of history there was a split: us and them:
The right wing (self-claimed protector of the mother land from the evils of communism, but also what gave birth to the most recent dictatorship of the 60s) and the left wing (brought the dictatorship down and established a new - but very corrupt - democracy after those events).
The public sector workers (huge benefits, little productivity, absolutely no incentive for improvement) and the private sector (the true backbone of the economy, not as productive as it should have been because of bureaucracy and mentality of the state).
These two main sides, in my opinion, have confused the people for a very long time. Traditionally there has been very little effort to balance the feelings between them because, of course, each side, when in power, wants to retain its status quo.
I have mixed feelings about the people in the streets. The little devil says that they now get what they deserve. The other angel says that not ALL of them are responsible, and amongst them there are many that never 1) voted for the corrupt/incompetent politicians 2) asked favours from politicians in return for voting for them and 3) in general have been good, honest people that try to make a living like they do in Germany, in Denmark and other such societies of the north we, "eurohungry", aspire to become like.
The right wing (self-claimed protector of the mother land from the evils of communism, but also what gave birth to the most recent dictatorship of the 60s) and the left wing (brought the dictatorship down and established a new - but very corrupt - democracy after those events).
The public sector workers (huge benefits, little productivity, absolutely no incentive for improvement) and the private sector (the true backbone of the economy, not as productive as it should have been because of bureaucracy and mentality of the state).
These two main sides, in my opinion, have confused the people for a very long time. Traditionally there has been very little effort to balance the feelings between them because, of course, each side, when in power, wants to retain its status quo.
I have mixed feelings about the people in the streets. The little devil says that they now get what they deserve. The other angel says that not ALL of them are responsible, and amongst them there are many that never 1) voted for the corrupt/incompetent politicians 2) asked favours from politicians in return for voting for them and 3) in general have been good, honest people that try to make a living like they do in Germany, in Denmark and other such societies of the north we, "eurohungry", aspire to become like.
Just print more money or start a war, or both, that will solve the situation eventually.
why do people sit on money, without spending it? because of greed. absolute selffishness. why do you need so much money? now go tell me rich people are not greedy…
How I imagine this pic would play out in Australia.
Quote:
But still this crisis is really not caused by the taxpayers that now have to pay up for that shit...
Excuse me, but what fucking payment of taxes are we talking about here? Inopia touched on the bullseye here -a major slice of the population made tax evasion, corruption and inertia goddamn national sports and hid under the pretense of socialism to serve their own leisure.
Going bankrupt on those terms ought to mean you get yourself a crash helmet before the crash -and not have the gall to feel entitled to panhandle for one without getting a funny stare from the rest of the world.
