pouët.net

If games are consider as art
then why not demos?

I have been reading also this. So, i games you take the control, you have to shoot things or solve puzzles, so in his sense it's not the creator who controls what your senses see but you. Which is not exactly right in my opinion, because there are games with linear gameplay, the same narrative story no matter how you shoot things, etc. It's interactive art.

Though, even in that aspect, wouldn't demos be more close to art, since most of them are non interactive? They are also more mature than games, it's not just shooting things but showing something beautiful. Though, most of the times they don't have a story to tell, a message to leave (another argument against demos being art) but it's just a random bunch of effects for some.

Anyway, I don't see art as something to be strictly defined, I see it as a process of creation. But is everything that is created art? The counter argument would be that if I make a tost in the morning, will it be art? Is your everyday job art? That's the difference in the demoscene too, we create things that are not useful. Wouldn't that be more close to art?

Anyway, I think this discussion about art has no sense, it doesn't change what we do. As the mystery man very well says. Why does this word 'art' has so big value yet it's so vague and someone declares what it is and what is not and we need to identify with it? I do believe the mystery man now. Who cares?

Now, discuss!

Everything is art.

(definition of art by Scott Mccloud)

Demos were art before games even thought about going there.

I refuse to consider games art if all that piece of deffinition foccus on the spewdom David Gaider comes up with.


* apologies to anyone working at Bioware*

Oh my, never heard this discussion before..

are demos fart?

Have you ever seen a demo fart... on a boner?

okkie: no, they are made by a guy called Bart Simpson! hahahahaha

I had an interesting discussion with Havoc on a ParaCon once.
I considered him an artist, he considered himself a craftsman.

This way or other, the demoscene has quite a lot self-proclaimed artists.

I'm a Fine Artist and I got papers to prove that!

I'm a fartist

Like 4mat said.

who cares if demos are considered as art? as long as the scene has fun producing and consuming them everything should be allright.

I for one do consider demos art, and people making demos artists. And Wikipedia says: "Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect." Yes, in demos items are deliberately arranged in a way that affects the senses of vision and hearing. So, demos are art.

Hell, I watched Iconoclast, Lifeforce and Animal Attraction today - not considering these masterpieces art would be almost blasphemous!

same wikipedia says:


bjork says: [not necessarily on wikipedia]


also:

Gonna have to go with bjork on this one.

And ham.

OP is just wanting to convince his trendy friends in the electronic newmedia scene.

they'll never accept the scene! and who cares.

Not useful in the context of basic human survival, but I believe that increasing the quality of life of your fellow man is a useful contribution to society. There is no rule that art has to be 'useless', take for example a crafty designed car or a racemotor. There also is no rule that states that art should be non-interactive. An example could be stand-up comedy or theatre. Even if the audience isn't allowed to speak, simply by by being in the same room as the guy/girl on stage has an effect.

And like Nosfe, I've also got the papers to prove I'm artist (not a master though), so if I make something, well,. :p

I do know one thing, and that is unless you consider all philosophy an art, that discussions about what is art and what isn't aren't very arty though. Now go and make a demo about it!