pouët.net

exposure as in 'more people knowing about the hard work put into a demo'. It is all about appreciation.

So, I am talking more about 'exposure to potential viewers' than to potential demomakers.

As for werkkzeug, a have a feeling that it will increase the number of productions, but not the overall quality.

ok you silly unproductive weeners, instead of talking about hypothetic crap like this go make stuff. the only reason the scene ever became a closed and possibly 'elitist' little private place is because NOBODY FUCKING CARES ABOUT DEMOS.

except for a few guys here and there.

Holy shit -- Did Legalize hax0r your account, Skrebbel?

If to much exposure means that i can`t access pouet.net due to heavy serverload...then it`s a negative thing :)

eye/PaC : just my opinion for your 'survey'.
I wanted to show demoscene art to large audience, and I do some (little) things to show me and our community to large public since about 4 years. But newest computer freaks did not understand our (hard) rules and way of thinking, because these teens/grand'pa had never know 8bits and did not understand why we do animations in realtime instead of pre-render all the things in movies. They did not understand why we use 'game' technology (realtime) to make passive softwares, they want to play with it, they want to view it in a browser or they want to show a divx, but they did not understand the interest of realtime.

Consumers audience is not ready to view our art, perhaps in 100 years ...

radman, no, it's just annoying me that all these little pricks who've never even been involved in anything talk about whether or not they should protect the little precious thing they think they own. they simply don't seem to realise that most other people with an interest into, say, computers, prefer games, gnu or msn messenger. the only 'bad' thing about demoscene exposure is the extra server load for scene.org and friends.

btw: zone, bullshit. i never "knew 8bits", and plenty along with me.

hurray for skreb! my point exactly!

Skrebbel: you're the one talking bullshit, unless you think you're a good representive of the "new computer freaks" population, but I'm pretty sure you ain't :-)

ehhh, how could anyone be a "representative" of a "generation"? i'm merely noticing that most people do not think demos are the coolest thing that can be done with computers. and if you disagree, try talking to some people at my university (technology), where imho quite a fair sample of these "new computer freaks" hang around recompiling kernels, writing bad computer games, sending around funny mp3s and leeching movies. some of these people may not think demos are stupid or useless, but virtually all of them prefer one or more of the above mentioned.

or were we merely misunderstanding one another?

if not, i'll prove my point by beating your ass at a fizzball match at scene event!

There are to many "hang-arounds" in the demoscene community. "Im a scener, but the only thing i do, is watching demos", fuck you. Go make something.

there are not too many hang-arounds. nobody sees just one demo and then devotes a year of his life to winning his county's next big demoparty. many sceners started out watching demos and visiting parties. only difference is that earlier, the hangarounds would watch the demos, tell their friends about it and maybe write a message to the authors if they like it, whereas now the hangarounds think they have an opinion about things they don't understand at pouet.net.

"the big bears just think that trees rule and there should be more of them".

Previously the "hang arounds" (groupies?) were called "swappers"...

I do not understand why you make such a big deal out of it. For example 99.9% of the worlds population watches movies for fun without any ambitions to make their own and understand what is going on behind it.

The same applies to most people and demos.

I have a feeling that the art people (the ones sponsored by ministery of culture!) have no awareness of the scene at all. And well, in my opinion, what they do is not really better than what the scene does.

Last friday, i saw a (fake) helicopter attached to a bus filled with junk. Real junk. Thrown away junk. And once in a while, in the pilot's seat, a rubber glove gets blown up by a compressor. And there are a few dozen people watching it. Perhaps they think they are smart, or that this should mean something, but... i don't know! And that's called "art in the public". Not that i would have any strong opinion about it... but i find scene definately more interesting. :)

This leads to two possible ways of thinking. (a) Scene can do better than that and be publically recognized as an art form - and perhaps not only passive volks, but also some good artists and perhaps coders from outside can join in. Or (b) art is crap, don't bring scene near it.

I'm not taking any position in this discussion, i just want the opinions.

Quisten: you don't expect people to release their first *CRAP*, do you? ;)

Steltz: there is in fact a point in preventing the passive people to enter. Scene is a *creative* community, right? However, i don't think the number of such people in the scene would change significantly.

And as to download numbers: most of them are around 20000, so if we have a few thousand (active) sceners out there, we reach them as soon as every one of them downloads these a few times over - which is not unrealistic considering one shows some to friends and/or downloads to multiple machines... How many sceners are there anywhere? And there are also people who are well aware of the scene but don't consider themselves a part of it. The only ones having monsterous counts seem to be "the popular demo" and "candytron", which get especially high press coverage. Viewed and forgotten.

Zone, kbab: interesting.

I throw my glove at you.

why consider the consumer audience or the art ppl as dummies ? unpleasant attitude won't help recognition.

questionning ourselves, the demo styles and the demo media ? perhaps a better way to go, but i doubt things can change easily..

the scene sadly seems to have implicit rules (about the media / styles / ways to do demos / ways to present demos) everyone more or less agree to follow.
those who don't, just leave (as what happened a year ago, when most of the french graphicians, decided to leave all their scene-related activities..)

can we probably stop seeing our "scene" as the center of everything ?

florent, nothing i consider as sadly. scene is also about pride, tradition and a certain codex, at least for me. but yes yes, this kinda talk is unpopular here, so i'd better crawl up in my warez hole again... :P

"tradition"
i think i would only use this word when talking about cheese, beer or wine ..

Don't forget all the people like me who pop up from time to time just to remind you of what todays sceners missed out on "back in the good ol' days" :D

Me think demos are neat. Me like neat things.

eye/PaC: if you want a poll, you should talk to the scene.org staff, the results for you would probably be a lot better :)

Anywayz, my two cents about the ".werkkzeug vs fetch it and make your killer intro" post... using .werkkzeug anywhere near a level where it can be compared to the stuff farbrausch did with it takes a _huge_ talent. Just because the tool is released, doesn't mean that it has a "make cool" button... Just a small example on this: look at the first two cns intros and compare them to the last 4-5 surprise! production intros... same tool, same technology... (sorry Nuke ;) Zooms, Gizmos and Fiver2s don't just grow on trees :)

I still think the demoscene going public can be more a good thing than a bad one. I'd be happy only by the fact that some more ppl took a few minutes to check out what we've been working on fo the last, say, 3 months. And, if the parties get crowded with ppl who are just there because of some hype, the organizers can always make it a closed party, and let only the guys in whom they want. Something like asm oldskool area just without the rest. Going private may be much easier than willingly going public...

stelthz: but people who watch movies dont call themself film-makers? or do they?

eye: its fun to release first crap! the road is long, so why dont show other newcommers that you dont have to be a supercoder to actually make something

eye: its fun to release first crap! the road is long, so why dont show other newcommers that you dont have to be a supercoder to actually make something

Quisten wants the exposure. Treat him mean, the needs the reputation.

stelthz:
" Previously the "hang arounds" (groupies?) were called "swappers"..."

oh boy...