pouët.net

Hello, everyone.

I've been entranced enough by the potential for Werkkzeug1 to forster some really creative and stunning works, and have started a page, "Workthings", which I hope will foster some of that creativity. Right now it simply has an introduction to werkkzeug1, and local copies of the main files to download, but I hope to be adding tutorials, articles and example packs for download over the next weeks.

The site has the unusual domain name of <A HREF="http://www.bitchtothecurb.com/workthings/">http://www.bitchtothecurb.com/workthings/</A> but it's quite legitimate.

If the program interests you, please stop by and let me know how it could be improved, and if there's anything you want to help with.

- Jason Scott
TEXTFILES.COM

Sorry about that; here's a working link: www.bitchtothecurb.com/workthings

For the lazy:

http://www.bitchtothecurb.com/workthings/

Great site by the way. Bitch to the Curb dot COM!

Great idea, but I think it is a bit lame to steal HTML&design.

Maybe you could set up a wiki?

I credit the HTML and design as Farbrauch's at the bottom; likely after I get my act together on content, I will switch to a different design and redo the place to accompany it, but I was concerned about putting the whole thing on the back burner until it was "just right".

I do my best to link back to Farbrausch as much as possible, so that it's obvious I took the stuff from there. I also put a comment in the source code indicating as such as well.

The wiki is a great idea. I'll get on that immediately.

without having even seen the site,

this feels wrong.

it was released to push the envelope on other groups tools and inspire the newbies into wanting to create. not to foster a community of users and promote a myriad of .werkkzeug1 lametros...

Well, without proper code, all the lametros are even more lame so I do not see the point.

Are visualizes demos with .werkkzeug1 also lametros? I mean he used a tool created for another group..

It's a good idea. More so if you implement it as a wiki. And well, I suggest doing it completly separate from the demoscene to avoid the expected calls of "lamers" etc by the chronically envious people.

stelthz: beeing that timo is actually talented and joined fr, no they arent lametros..

nicolas: i just dont see the sense in promoting a flood of prods made my a demomaker.. on demopaja atleast you could code some plugins for it..

it sounds "lame" to me to use a tool to do demos instead of learning how to code; and creating sites for promoting such tools' use is abit.. well.. anti-scene spirit imho. i mean, its gonna be flooded with people who are striving for the best use possible out of a demotool but cant be bothered to join a group or learn the technology behind it.. that goes somewhat against the original spirit of pushing the limits out of a machine if you ask me...

i guess it's a nice tool for ppl who are into audiovisual design and cant be bothered to learn how to code, and there is nothing really wrong with sharing experiences with it, and such a site or mailing list would eventually be created..

but still.. it feels wrong.

whatever.. wtf does my opinion matter anyways...

After all why not ?
For a couple of minutes i thought someone would just eventually publish some tutorials about this tool in some diskmags, i was wrong.

"that goes somewhat against the original spirit of pushing the limits out of a machine if you ask me..."

not to mention the group == family spirit

and the socializing with people who are prolific in other fields then your own area of interest.. (coders influencing musicians, graphicians complaining to the coders about lack of artistic freedom..)

it just feels wrong

year of the word: 2004
word of the year: scene spirit

hitch: im pretty sure there will be some reviews about it and small guides/tutorials too.. and they would be interesting and usefull for some ppl.

i guess im just doubtfull on what it'll do to the scene :) dunno why, we all know the scene is dead for a long time already anyways :P

I'll have the wiki up before long. Working on it in the background as you read this...

Very quickly (since it would make more sense to expound on the site itself), I should say that there is obviously an inherent backlash or controversy over what exactly this tool's use is.

For people deep in the world of coding and demo-making, it is simply a nice tech display, maybe a neat way to learn some tricks or trash talk or otherwise engage in all that back-and-forth that competing demogroups do.

For some of us, who are not coders, who do not have the time or inclination to learn coding and do other things, it's a chance to have a lot of fun dabbling with a program to create some beautiful graphics. The program is easy to use in some ways and difficult in others, and so I have decided it would be good to have a site where people can share information.

On a personal level, I see this tool the equivalent of the music trackers of the past couple of decades, where base code has been written to allow creative-but-not-coding folks to express themselves. While it would be nice if everyone had the expertise to write their own music system, I know I'm personally indebted to the creators of FT2 for allowing me to make a bunch of .XMs that the world would not have otherwise seen. I would certainly never pretend that my .XMs, using this pre-written music creation system and played using others' tools, to be the equivalent of my writing both these tools from scratch, in the "legitimate coder" style.

Like I said, this sort of controversy comes "built-in" to any such system (be your own mix DJ, make your own HTML page from these templates, make your own video game) between people who do the stuff "professionally". But for those of us who understand the fun and joy of these things, who wish that we could at least dip our legs in the water even though we can't swim, this could be enjoyable indeed.

Oh, and under the "who the hell are you anyway" department that sounds like it will be coming next, I run textfiles.com and specifically to the interest of this site, I run artscene.textfiles.com which is a collection of all sorts of "scene"-related stuff (and growing as I can add to it). I just like putting things together.

Regarding "for the scene" versus "not for the scene", I simply posted in this forum because it seemed to make sense to, what with Farbrausch posting here as well and the tool being announced here. I would hope that the tool would be known in circles outside the standard sites that are related to democoding.

Im looking forward to great creations made with this tool. Because all the shit will get weeded out, as with any shit, made in any program or by any coder/artist.

I dont care if people use an industrial sprayer or a toothbrush, as long as the wall gets painted. if you know what im saying.

Good initiative Jason

a scene that can't accept losing the elitism ? what a shocker ;)

i am not against the release of werkkzeug, allthough FR sees it as a 'stimulation', i think it'll work vice versa. Decent artists *will* find decent coders to work with.... (since coders BEG for them) Tho, thanks to werkkzeug lamers can produce lame productions without much effort... meaning the general level of entries will drop. I dont want to sound negative and well, honestly, let's wait and see what'll happen. BUT the ideal was nice :)

But i suggest a new compo on each party for the werkkzeug entries and where FR gets a part of the prizemoney. ;)

felipe what i mean is, just let other people be. Ok you guys may want to push a contrained definition for demos, so my advice would be, let those guys do what they want with the tools they want and invent their very own category. If they use a tool in the same way other people may use flash and release their stuff, and do it creatively and have fun doing it, I say it's a positive thing, and certainly not lame.

But yeah, I reiterate my advice not to deal in any way with the scene except maybe if you want to use werkzeug to release wilds. but really I wouldn't think it make sense.

hehe, dont think there will be that many entries on parties to justify a new compo. im actually more wondering on scene outsiders releasing "amazing audiovisual demos" without even knowing what a demoparty is for example..
but the tracked music analogy is somewhat very valid, we also had lots of trackers who didnt give a damn about the tracking/demo scene. some even released albums and stuff.. i guess the quality will stand out, and so will the real scene attachment..

just makes me abit sad to think that ppl are gonna be using good will of the sceners to fullfill their personal egos without giving anything back, but thats just how the world works.. life is unfair =)

jason scott: nice job with the textfiles, even though demojournal isnt archived :P and good luck on your projects =)

yes, tracking is a good example. in fact, they created their own scene. and eventhough they were using DEMOSCENE tools (st3/it/ft2) they didnt related themselves to our scene... in fact, i knew quite a few trackers that werent even aware of the demoscene at all and believed the tools they were using were made by dedicated artists :))

i doubt this will happen to a new werkkzeugdemo scene tho... but perhaps we'll finally get some newcomers in our dying scene :P

I wanted to announce that the Wiki is now up. If you go to http://www.bitchtothecurb.com/workthings/werkwiki you can start adding your own thoughts and pieces of the body of knowledge... or ignore it all completely.

It won't solve anything for me to debate with others on this message base about the validity or lack of validity of the whole endeavour; I just take the tack of "energy spent is not energy wasted if things move forward". To this end, the first version 1.0 document on the Wiki is a very large overview of the "controversy" this program has started. :)

I look forward to others who want to help.

maali, in fact the trackingscene on pc did evolve from the demoscene, tho the later years new people stepped into the tracking scene without having had their feet in the demoscene before .. seeing it from the average, there's always been more musicians than coders or graphic artists, so it wasn't unavoidable that they released some stuff outside of demos, since nobody could keep up with their overall prolific-ness =)

I wish I could say that you're new here, but sheesh :)