pouët.net

i know it's not going to change much. i'm just trying to get people to throw in ideas on how to actually have fun at the party, which in turn might persuade certain types of sceners to go there.

The last cool TG was 93, after it moved to the fucking viking ship on the coldest place on earth it went to hell.....now it`s gamers, gameshows and bling bling...and noone can deny that.

Zplex: The first TG at Hamar was 1996. :-)

You didn't, and I have no idea where you got that idea from. There is no changes to the prizes - no money.
You should probably ask Scamp and Abyss about that, seeing as both Breakpoint and Assembly has gotten major sponsoring funds from both gamers and other non-scene related companies for as long as they have existed.
TG has been sponsoring the Scene.org Awards for many years, while it took place at Breakpoint. Assembly has also done this. It would be really beneficial if people who had absolutely no idea about this would just stop talking nonsense and educate themselves just a little bit about the actual circumstances before opening their crapshoots.

Zplex: believe it or not, but an event can actually change even if it is located in the same physical arena.

Again: it would be really good idea to stop repeating your idea of what TG is, after years of not attending it (if at all).

gloom: Hum? Breakpoint has never gotten any sponsoring from gamers. There have never ever been any gamers at Breakpoint. If we had sponsors from the gaming industry, then this had been due to them looking for sceners to work for them, not to advertise games.

And yes, Assembly, TG and Breakpoint always have donated some funds to scene.org. But we are talking about quite different dimensions now. The amount TG is paying for the awards is more than double of what all the sponsors combined have paid in the previous years.

Your facts are wrong.

And the facts are: After receiving an offer for 50.000 NOC from TG, scene.org has announced that the awards will be moved to TG, 8 months prior to the awards taking place. "Money is not playing a vital role" is simply lying into sceners faces. And that stinks.

this thread sucks. both ways.

"TG has been sponsoring the Scene.org Awards for many years, while it took place at Breakpoint. Assembly has also done this. It would be really beneficial if people who had absolutely no idea about this would just stop talking nonsense and educate themselves just a little bit about the actual circumstances before opening their crapshoots."

sponsoring a part or covering the whole expenses is not the same dimension. scene.org awards found a party, who donates enough to keep this nice tradition alive, and it is held at its place, and that's it, now matter how pink you try to sell it.

How is this different from how sponsors help TG, or Assembly, or Solskogen for that matter? It isn't. That's the point. The argument "we don't need GAMERS' money" is completely void. Last year, Breakpoint survived because God+Dog gave what they could give to make it happen. The fact that Breakpoint happened is the only thing that matters - right? Same deal here. The argument that simply because the money to organize the awards comes from TG makes it "bad", is a crappy argument, and I'm tired of reading it.

Again you use the phrase "paying for the awards". Can you please make it perfectly clear to everyone still following this thread if you are saying that Scene.org is getting paid in some way for bringing the awards to TG? Because that's the way all your posts read, and it is just bullshit.

Again: there exists no such offer, and you know this, so stop saying it. I'll repeat what has been spelled out enough times already: TG has proposed a budget for hosting the Scene.org Awards in which they cover the usual costs and spend some of their own dime on making the show extra special. Good for them! Scene.org recieves no money. Nothing.

Oh, and your cheap way of using NOK because the number is higher than EUR won't work I think, so you are free to stop doing that because I don't think people are falling for it.

That's the only thing you've said in this thread that's true. Now please tell me why that is bad/wrong/stinky.

• Is it a bad thing that the place of the event is known 8 months in advance?
  
• Is it wrong for Scene.org to secure their financing for the awards, something that has been a problem in earlier years, in good time to plan the event?
  
• Is it stinky business that TG wants to spend extra money on making the show extra good, and at the same time bad of Scene.org for wanting the best show possible?

Again: please explain to everyone how any of those things are bad.

You're free to think that the move to TG stinks, and so are everyone else, but the way you're trying to make it sound like Scene.org accepted a bribe and let the awards go to hell at some not-Breakpoint party is fucking insulting.

No, that's how you want to sell it, because for some reason you want to see the worst in this and be angry about it, again, for some reason. Would it be "okay" for you if, say, Assembly paid for half the awards and TG paid for the other half, and it still was held at TG? Most likely not, because partly or wholly sponsored by one single party makes no difference, apart from in your bad-tempered logic.

It's all about the money, dude...

Sesse: Hmm, i guess it`s a sign that i`m getting old :) I just remember Lillestrøm and not Stavanger or wherever it was :)

I really don't understand why people are not willing to give TG the benefit of the doubt.

scene awards are better organized with the sponsorship of the nazis.
godwin's law. thread closed. kthxbye.

Zplex: G95 was Stavanger, and it was a sort of special event (it was not organized by Crusaders, nor KANDU — it was just an otherwise unrelated party borrowing the name).

In any case, next year there will be 17 years since 1994. Like gloom, I'd like to point out that parties do not tend to stay static through that amount of time, so passing judgment on TG2011 (whose sole announced fact so far is that it will host the scene.org Awards!) on the basis of TG94 sounds a bit harsh. :-)

(FWIW, I don't have anything to do with the demoscene at TG, except being a happy supporter and former compo participant; I'm responsible for server/networking stuff, and for the encoding/distribution of the stream. That's all.)

gloom: I don´t think replying will help. he has made up his mind about how stuff "is". so I guess it´s easier to just let it be.

So about TG: I was the in 2009 and this was the first time for me since 1997 I think. it also was the first year they had this scene chillout sone. it worked great and made it be a party inside the party and I didnt had to mingle with gamers or so. Yes the party did not offer me to get dead drunk, it did not offer puking sceners and noone yelled Amiga. So if thats what the scene is about and not demos, graphic compos, music compos etc then this is really not the party for you (I like both).

However it DID offer a hell of a great democompo with a huge amount of people watching it. it DID offer a very nice atmosphere in the scene chillout area where SCENERS actually was present! (for those of you claiming there is 7 sceners or so there, that simply isnt true. unless all sceners has to be germans) and it did offer pizzas for everyone there to celebrate the demo compo was over.

So for me it was a great _DEMOSCENE_ party WITH SCENERS. I did not check how it was as a game party and I do not care.

However I could not give a rats ass about scene awards as it seems the people in the jury only watch demos by the "big famous groups" and they always ends up winning even the categories they are not so great in (IMO!)

The s_breakpointReplacementParty shoukd get its fair share of the coverage, atleast more representation then what TG got, "btw there is some people sitting in a room watching us lets have a look...say hi.....okthxbye...".(a bit polemical i know :) )

The awards is going to be distanced from the majority of the sceners and worse, a large chunk of the winners.
Anything they can do to remedy that in the show/streaming solution, will in my eyes be the biggest factor of success.

Gloom: You are mixing quotes from me and other people, that's a bit confusing. And you are trying to contradict arguments I didn't make. Neither "we don't need GAMERS money" nor "the money to organize the awards comes from TG makes it "bad"". What kind of crappy straw man fallacy is this? :)

My point is simply: For me it's obvious that the decision to move the awards to TG have not been based on the following factors:

- Travel distance for average scener
- Gamer/Demoscene ration (party focus)
- Relevance of the party to the scene
- Number of sceners attending
- Number of winners attending
- Alcohol rules at the party

But on the following factor:

- Money

And that's about it. It's not the first time such a tendency has happened inside the scene - for the record, I also wasn't quite happy about the NVScene stuff back then. I don't like it if parts of the scene are controlled on the basis of who has the deepest pocket. I know it's a reality, and NVScene has shown that even releases can be bought. I still don't like it, and that's my good right.

Now the scene.org Awards for sure aren't THAT important to the scene. They might have solved their financial problems, and exchanged this for becoming irrelevant, or maybe it works out nicely, I don't care too much.

But the combination of the awards being available for purchase and the fact that scene.org is announcing this with newspeak ("logical extension of that relationship", "to change the location of the ceremony is the result of careful consideration") really sucks and I hate it. If these guys are selling their asses, they could at least sincereness to say.

But this isn't the case, so it's a waste of time to discuss further. So EOD for me.

Not to be a complete bastard, but something has always caught my eyes ...



... german sceners seem to not participate in other that german parties except if they are close to Germany .. it's kinda out of context, but still worth mentioning, and if this seems misplaced, please keep in mind what time it is and that i might be drunk like fuck (besides spelling quite good)

dwarf: I've met german sceners in Spain, France, Netherlands, Denmark and Finland. At demoparties. So... no.

Also, I just want to say two things:

1 - I don't care where the scene.org awards are. I actually don't care much about them. Unless they invite me to host it. Then I care. Unless there's no alcohol. Then I don't care anymore. Unless there's chicks. Then I care again. Unless they are fat scandinavian girls. Then I'm outta there. Fast.

2- Magic: shut up.

jeenio won! LOL awesome buddy :)

anyhow.. i dont think this thread sucks like some people say. this is a healthy discussion, and TG orgas / scene.org awards people should have known it was going to happen. i have very little interest in politics, hence i am not too active in the why the fucke part of TG being the awards host. all i can guarantee is that i will watch it from a far :)

ps: someone (no idea who) proposed evoke as a potential new candidate. as for now, i could not agree more. i dont think it is a fluke that the two biggest scene parties in the history of the demoworld has been in germany. its easy and somewhat cheap to get there for "most" of us. actually, it is cheaper for me to spend 5 days in germany than 5 days in hamar, including travel expenses. and i live 4 hours by car from hamar.

xerxes: you're too kind :)

but I agree, I'm from fucking Portugal - fucking means fucking far away, poor and with tons of children - so Germany isn't a big hole in the budget like Scandinavia or Switzerland (sorry Unlock!)

then again, why aren't the scene.org awards hosted at InerciaDemoparty? ryanair, easyjet, germanwings, airberlin and other low-cost airlines fly there, and IT ALL SO CHEAP!

oh for God's sake. I was a gamer once. Wait.. I still am! The last game that totally sucked me in for about 2 weeks was Half Life 2. I loved it to. I've been contemplating how much of an effect it will have on my life if I go out and buy Starcraft 2. I LOVED the original. What a great piece of art. Not just the music, the cutscenes, and the graphics, but the gameplay.. so well balanced. You just made my mind up. I'm going to blow 40 quid on that game and waste 2 weeks of demo coding time and fucking enjoy it. Given that a good percentage of you work in the games industry, you might even get like 5p or something (yes I know it's like the music industry and you all get fucked up the arse..been there, done that... now I'm a sysadmin).

Where the hell do you think we get new blood? Do you think that when Happiness Is Round The Bend got a standing ovation by a bunch of "gamers" it was just some people clapping?

Given the population of Finland compared to the population of Britain, which has no LAN parties as such, why do you think they have more sceners than us?

I don't think Assembly is the root cause, but they have a massive role in it.

Say hello to the gamers.. point at bits on their screens and tell them how that bit works. Keep talking about the art and the technology.

Oh wait... you just want to get pissed in the demoscene party cult. Fuck off.

If I had UNLIMITED MONEY, that means an UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF MONEY, as in there IS NO MORE THAN UNLIMITED IT'S THE MAX LEVEL, I would go the scene.org awards anywhere, even on the moon, and would pay everybody's trip if they wanted to go. So it's always a question of money indirectly. IMO Scamp is right on that point. But there are always those who are slightly more oldschool and don't want to spoil the scene making it look like something that it isn't, while others wish the scene had more exposure everywhere while in reality they really know it won't go anywhere. Not even if *INSERT FAMOUS POP STAR* made a demo and lost against Jumalauta.
And I would still like to make a production good enough to be nominated for a scene.org award or two, on a very bad year.

if I'm going to TG, I'm going to TG, not the scene.org awards. And you don't have to be att he place to accept the award so what's the big fuzz?

Props to TG for making it possible, even tho I think the scene.org awards are overrated.

Mmm... me too - I don't care too much, but maybe I'd feel differently about it if I was ever nominated for anything :o)

Anyway. I think scamp has a point with some of what he says above: number of sceners likely to attend and alcohol rules do impact my decision of where to go somewhat, I'll admit it :) Which is inevitable, really... if we can't have a drink, I know that Darklite won't come, and I rather like meeting Darklite.

On the other hand, I find it a little weird how quickly people will assume the worst about other sceners. Maybe I'm just too trusting or naive, but I haven't had any reason to suspect nefarious intentions from any of the TG organizers, nor from Scene.org ... They want to do it at TG, and why not? It's not like it can't move somewhere else in 2012 if it turns out not to work very well. Moving it around, after all, was the intention from the beginning, no?

also: lighten up ... it's "just" an award ceremony for a bunch of geeks doing their thing .. by the way people are getting aggravated, you'd think the move was somehow impacting their personal freedom, or deleting their porn collection or something :o)