Scene.org Awards 2011
category: parties [glöplog]
Does that apply strictly to "events", or would it apply to, say, restaurants, fairs, circuses.. private parties? I know Norway is hysterical (in both senses) when it comes to alcohol, but this is blowing my mind! o_O
alcohol is bad m´kay?!
ALCOHOOOLL!!! GIMME MY ALLCOHOOL!! I NEED MORE ALKKKOOOHHOLÖL!!
ok, guys. i'm calm. i'm reasonable. grown-up. adult. serious.
NOW GIMME BACK MY SALMIAKKI
NOW GIMME BACK MY SALMIAKKI
alcohol owns
I'm not citing any laws here, i just mentioned a festival were 16 year olds can attend and camp amongst boozers.
What i don't know about the subject could fill books.
What i don't know about the subject could fill books.
i think it's not only about boozing. there have been parties like @party who managed to have a cool 100% pure demoscene party where everyone has fun, even without alcohol.
at least for me it's the 100% pure demoscene party that counts. you just feel more comfortable and more 'home' if you could party, meet and compete with all your scene friends. therefore it's more logical to have such a party somewhere in the center around all sceners, which makes germany, belgium or south/east netherlands just more the central location for such an event where all people have 'equal' travel distances, and also fair rates in stores and on site.
it might be true that germans became lazy during the years, just because of having big parties like BP, tum and evoke right at your front door.
but i need to second several people here regarding the TG thingy. for me it just feels wrong to party as a minority surrounded by a majority of people who simply don't or don't want to understand what you are doing. it might work for several parties, but the math is simple: if there is a replacement as a 100% pure party for the biggest meeting where everyone wants to be there, i will go.
planning a replacement party is such a tedious task that people should understand that they might just fly under the radar now - this is not unfair, you need to settle so many things before going public in order to fulfill the promises. as seen in this thread, people seem to be worried, which makes the planning even more carefully. you just not want to disappoint people.
and no, i'm not affiliated with this replacement party.... but during the summer parties, everyone should have noticed that there is some heavy work going on. but please give those people some time.
i don't know this leaked document and such, but this was my first thought when i read the original post. the implification was probably wrong, but it is sad to hear this.
at least for me it's the 100% pure demoscene party that counts. you just feel more comfortable and more 'home' if you could party, meet and compete with all your scene friends. therefore it's more logical to have such a party somewhere in the center around all sceners, which makes germany, belgium or south/east netherlands just more the central location for such an event where all people have 'equal' travel distances, and also fair rates in stores and on site.
it might be true that germans became lazy during the years, just because of having big parties like BP, tum and evoke right at your front door.
but i need to second several people here regarding the TG thingy. for me it just feels wrong to party as a minority surrounded by a majority of people who simply don't or don't want to understand what you are doing. it might work for several parties, but the math is simple: if there is a replacement as a 100% pure party for the biggest meeting where everyone wants to be there, i will go.
planning a replacement party is such a tedious task that people should understand that they might just fly under the radar now - this is not unfair, you need to settle so many things before going public in order to fulfill the promises. as seen in this thread, people seem to be worried, which makes the planning even more carefully. you just not want to disappoint people.
and no, i'm not affiliated with this replacement party.... but during the summer parties, everyone should have noticed that there is some heavy work going on. but please give those people some time.
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To me personally, this is mostly a matter of ethics. It's a scene event that got bought for a really big number of cash. Like many people in the scene, I have seen the quote that was sent to scene.org - this document leaked massively. The decision on where scene.org awards should be held have clearly not been based on what's good for the scene or sceners, but purely on financial grounds.
i don't know this leaked document and such, but this was my first thought when i read the original post. the implification was probably wrong, but it is sad to hear this.
scamp, refering to your post i'd say that scene.org did a good dead in securing the event next year. you can't expect the world to stand still while "some one" finalizes the nitty-griddy details of local community planning.
tg organizers: is it tolerable to behave as back in The Party days? Back then people gathered out side the building drinking and went inside drunk (but not dead drunk).
tg organizers: is it tolerable to behave as back in The Party days? Back then people gathered out side the building drinking and went inside drunk (but not dead drunk).
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Which makes it all the more of a bad thing to have put out there by Scamp, since it isn't true.i don't know this leaked document and such, but this was my first thought when i read the original post. the implification was probably wrong, but it is sad to hear this.
Whoa. Scamp, I used to have a lot of respect for you and your accomplishments, but these rants are not only childish, they are clearly not written with a level head. Saying it is unethical for The Gathering to step forward and try to deliver a good alternative venue for the scene.org awards at a time when there simply is no official contender, is just... Sad. I can only wonder where this rage comes from.
And suggesting there was a financial transaction involved is just ludicrous. Are you saying Melwyn is corrupt?
And suggesting there was a financial transaction involved is just ludicrous. Are you saying Melwyn is corrupt?
gloom: I strongly suggest not strongly suggesting to me to take it easy with slander, accusations and speculations. It might force me to simply put the facts onto the table.
For example, that TG is paying 50.000 NOK (6340 €) for the awards.
Hey, why not simply post the agreement online, then everyone can judge for themselves?
No matter how much you go through the roof - I've got my right to have my opinion, and my opinion is: TG has bought the scene.org awards. You'll have to live with that.
For example, that TG is paying 50.000 NOK (6340 €) for the awards.
Hey, why not simply post the agreement online, then everyone can judge for themselves?
No matter how much you go through the roof - I've got my right to have my opinion, and my opinion is: TG has bought the scene.org awards. You'll have to live with that.
I personally don't care about the awards enough to travel to a gamerlamer party + 10 sceners. Especially with such a strict drug/alcohol policy.
menace: I didn't say it's unethical, I said it's a matter of ethics. And it is. I also didn't even slightly hint that anyone is personally benefitting from this, I didn't imply corruption, you are taking this out of your ass.
Plus, there is no rage. I've always been known for using very clear words. And I've got no horse in this race either - I love scene.org, I'm not involved with the awards, and I'm not involved with any party that potentiallly could have hosted the awards instead of BP now (there are heaps - how about Outline?).
You may not share my views, you may not find scene events becoming a good of trade a matter of ethics, all well. It's just my personal opinion.
I've got to admit though, that I do enjoy a good dose of flame war from time to time. That's a scene tradition :)
Plus, there is no rage. I've always been known for using very clear words. And I've got no horse in this race either - I love scene.org, I'm not involved with the awards, and I'm not involved with any party that potentiallly could have hosted the awards instead of BP now (there are heaps - how about Outline?).
You may not share my views, you may not find scene events becoming a good of trade a matter of ethics, all well. It's just my personal opinion.
I've got to admit though, that I do enjoy a good dose of flame war from time to time. That's a scene tradition :)
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However my idea is to just give the sceners a section of their own
Sceners WILL have a section of their own; The Gathering has always had this, and over the last two years we have evolved this into a comfortable lounge area with proper chairs and tables, sofas, a separate big screen for demoshows and seminars. This has successfully created a focused creative environment and the feeling of being at a demoparty "inside" a mainstream computer party. This has the advantage of access to facilities like the kickass sound and vision system of the main stage, not to mention the outreach effect this implies. We will expand this lounge area with additional space and facilities this year to make this a more appealing event for adult creative people who want to spend easter in an inspiring environment with friends and interesting people.
We are very happy to get suggestions as for what we can do to make an easter in Hamar worthwhile for you. Constructive e-mails to demo@gathering.org are however preferred over loosely connected arguments in a pouet-thread. A more specific list of the facilities we will offer this year will be announced in due time.
The only thing we can NOT do under any circumstance, is allowing or serving alcohol inside the main hall. But Hamar is a proper city by Norwegian standards. I wouldn't be surprised if the book "101 ways to get hammered in Hamar" was already written :)
I guess the few of you complaining haven't been to the gathering for a long time, or ever. I actually fully understand your concerns, but I also think you'd be surprised about the changes that we have made over the past few years. I'm not however claiming that The Gathering will be the perfect party for everyone; i guess it's a question of what you look for in a demoparty.
Scamp, we're happy cooperate with the Breakpoint replacement party if such an event takes place. In fact few of people working for the Scene.org Awards are also part of organizing of this party.
However I'd question your own ethics on this matter - spreading information from leaked documents (it looks like you're referring to TG proposal for offering us venue & sponsoring) is blatant smearing in my books. The Gathering is supporting the Scene.org Awards financially and there's nothing wrong with that. This year we couldn't even afford to get any prizes for the winners due to lack of sponsoring, and our budget has been on the negative side for several years in a row. Now it looks like we could ship also the missing prizes to previous winners. And like, you know, have a proper show without needing to worry about every penny. How this is "really big number of cash" or "getting bought" is beyond my comprehension.
However I'd question your own ethics on this matter - spreading information from leaked documents (it looks like you're referring to TG proposal for offering us venue & sponsoring) is blatant smearing in my books. The Gathering is supporting the Scene.org Awards financially and there's nothing wrong with that. This year we couldn't even afford to get any prizes for the winners due to lack of sponsoring, and our budget has been on the negative side for several years in a row. Now it looks like we could ship also the missing prizes to previous winners. And like, you know, have a proper show without needing to worry about every penny. How this is "really big number of cash" or "getting bought" is beyond my comprehension.
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For example, that TG is paying 50.000 NOK (6340 €) for the awards.
OK, there goes my last drop of respect for you, scamp.
There is a big difference between covering costs related to the event and paying someone off to get it, please be specific as to which of these extremes you are accusing us for.
Pulling of something like scene.org awards can not be done without resources, and all TG has done is to say that we can cover associated cost within a given budget, as we have contributed to over a number of years through our sponsorship.
I don't know how you got access to this information in the first place, but when you take information like this out of context, you should be really, really careful.
isnt it obvious? it is yet another scam by the nordic conspiracy to steal the awards from the greeks!!!!11one
Leija said:
vs.
Melwyn said:
i just don't get the connection here???
bail-out/clearance sale controversy ftw!! :)
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Also, to the best of my knowledge, the "rumoured possible replacement party" never contacted the Awards staff.
vs.
Melwyn said:
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Scamp, we're happy cooperate with the Breakpoint replacement party if such an event takes place. In fact few of people working for the Scene.org Awards are also part of organizing of this party.
i just don't get the connection here???
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The Gathering is supporting the Scene.org Awards financially and there's nothing wrong with that. This year we couldn't even afford to get any prizes for the winners due to lack of sponsoring, and our budget has been on the negative side for several years in a row. Now it looks like we could ship also the missing prizes to previous winners. And like, you know, have a proper show without needing to worry about every penny. How this is "really big number of cash" or "getting bought" is beyond my comprehension.
bail-out/clearance sale controversy ftw!! :)
Melwyn:
All well, but you are not communicating in an open fashion as I would expect it to happen inside the "family" the scene is. I sure know the awards always had financial troubles. But hey, be honest, if TG would have offered to pay 0 Euros like BP has done, the chances are pretty big that you would have chosen another party. There are tons of parties in Europe that have a far higher number of sceners present, and are far better suited for the awards to take place at (audience, travel distances, alcohol rules).
Instead, after getting a quote from TG you decided 8 months prior to the awards that they'll take place at TG, deal closed just weeks after TG's offer.
I'm sorry this is hurting you, but I really do not see that the decision on where the awards should take place would have needed to be done today, you could have taken the time to select a new party. And I don't really see any other explanation for this than the simple fact that no other demoparty in Europe would be able to afford paying scene.org such an amount of money.
And the communication that is going on here from TG and scene.org is smoke and mirrors, and it's silly. "Yes, so they bought the awards, for us this was the only way to finally get rid of the financing problems we always had, isn't that better than NO awards?" for example would have been a reply that probably would have had far more thruth in it than everything that was said so far here.
All well, but you are not communicating in an open fashion as I would expect it to happen inside the "family" the scene is. I sure know the awards always had financial troubles. But hey, be honest, if TG would have offered to pay 0 Euros like BP has done, the chances are pretty big that you would have chosen another party. There are tons of parties in Europe that have a far higher number of sceners present, and are far better suited for the awards to take place at (audience, travel distances, alcohol rules).
Instead, after getting a quote from TG you decided 8 months prior to the awards that they'll take place at TG, deal closed just weeks after TG's offer.
I'm sorry this is hurting you, but I really do not see that the decision on where the awards should take place would have needed to be done today, you could have taken the time to select a new party. And I don't really see any other explanation for this than the simple fact that no other demoparty in Europe would be able to afford paying scene.org such an amount of money.
And the communication that is going on here from TG and scene.org is smoke and mirrors, and it's silly. "Yes, so they bought the awards, for us this was the only way to finally get rid of the financing problems we always had, isn't that better than NO awards?" for example would have been a reply that probably would have had far more thruth in it than everything that was said so far here.
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But but... Navis has been spotted at TG for several years in a row! This conspiracy is doomed to fail!isnt it obvious? it is yet another scam by the nordic conspiracy to steal the awards from the greeks!!!!11one
Pro: I don't know if the replacement party takes place. Don't know if anybody does yet. But we people like ryg and kb onboard and I'm pretty sure if this party in Germany during Easter becomes reality, they'll be there. :)
matti: thanks for explaining the joke.. now EVERYONE gets it! :P
Duckers: In the past the scene.org awards have happened without the party they took place at paying money. You are now paying/investing/budgeting 50.000 NOK. Call it whatever you like, I call it "buying the awards". I also call the sum a sum that no "pure" demo scene party would be able to bring up and compete with.
Regarding the information leak: This is the scene. Several people at Evoke greeted me with "hey, have you read about this TG/scene.org stunt?".
And I find it rather silly to make a big secret out of it. Why not talk openly about it? Do you really think it will take you anywhere trying to redefine the term "buying"? I don't think so :)
Regarding the information leak: This is the scene. Several people at Evoke greeted me with "hey, have you read about this TG/scene.org stunt?".
And I find it rather silly to make a big secret out of it. Why not talk openly about it? Do you really think it will take you anywhere trying to redefine the term "buying"? I don't think so :)
And now let's please compare the official announcement...
"Scene.org has cooperated with The Gathering for many years, and the move is a logical extension of that relationship, as well as a huge opportunity to reach a whole new audience with the awards and to take them to the next level. The decision to change the location of the ceremony is the result of careful consideration and we couldn't be happier about it."
...to my statement...
"TG has bought the awards by paying 50.000 NOK"
And in combination with the discussion going here if TG is the right place for this (travel distance, alcohol rules, audience) everyone reading this thread should be able to find their own believe on which of the two statements most likely is closer to the truth.
"Scene.org has cooperated with The Gathering for many years, and the move is a logical extension of that relationship, as well as a huge opportunity to reach a whole new audience with the awards and to take them to the next level. The decision to change the location of the ceremony is the result of careful consideration and we couldn't be happier about it."
...to my statement...
"TG has bought the awards by paying 50.000 NOK"
And in combination with the discussion going here if TG is the right place for this (travel distance, alcohol rules, audience) everyone reading this thread should be able to find their own believe on which of the two statements most likely is closer to the truth.
this thread inspired me to:
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deus: Doesn't matter - there is no lower age-limit at TG, hence no alcohol is allowed. In addition to that, it is branded as a no-alcohol event, again: no alcohol is allowed. I guess what I'm saying is: no alcohol is allowed, and unless the point doesn't come across: there is no alcohol allowed.
So who is this OVERLORD TG GOD who has written down in stone for all eternity that TG is a no-alcohol event?
It is allowed to change ones mind/policies you know.
Fine that TG doesnt want to have a "over 18 section" where you can get a drink, me and Deus only underline that it is fully possible and not impossible even in "nazi-WE KNOW WHATS BEST FOR YOU-norway"
And please, anti-alco-nerds. Stop patronizing us with that "You can have fun without beer" crap. If you dont want to drink, thats fine, have fun without. But dont patronize the ones that enjoys a drink or 10.
