TRSI ex-coder Spider/T-Bone is back with a vengeance with his newest release, GfxEditor.com, a brilliant web-app for creating graphic design.
category: residue [glöplog]
Recipe for pain.
1. Make a great project
2. Post about it on pouet
3. Have lots of idiots vomit on your project
I have also done this before... but eventually I learned.
:)
1. Make a great project
2. Post about it on pouet
3. Have lots of idiots vomit on your project
I have also done this before... but eventually I learned.
:)
I disagree!
I'm loving posting on this BBS :)
Everytime a user asks for help using GfxEditor, I first post it in here, than I copy it and insert it in my Forum under the Help section. This is a great way of doing this... My user gets a fast response, and I get a better Help section.
Thank you for the questions, keep them comming :)
I'm loving posting on this BBS :)
Everytime a user asks for help using GfxEditor, I first post it in here, than I copy it and insert it in my Forum under the Help section. This is a great way of doing this... My user gets a fast response, and I get a better Help section.
Thank you for the questions, keep them comming :)
Quote:
try comparing word perfect 5.5 for dos with a recent version of e.g. ms word. they basicly cover the same amount of functionality, however wp had all functionality glued to weird keyboard-combinations while ms word has context aware menus and what not (and no; im not saying the ms word is the path to follow, since it has its flaws too :)
And then they made office 2007 and fuct it all up again.
so like, its 4 am in denmark, and im sitting in the toilet of aarhus university and shitting like there was no tomorrow.
fuckings to research papers and too much coffee \o/
fuckings to research papers and too much coffee \o/
Digest this :)
Said by rpfr:
"I just started watching your video and can't decide wether it's a real life sartire or a joke.
Hint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyK-3Em8__c - he's doing it wrong, too."
I bet he made a gazillion dollars and got laid more then you ever will :)
I'm next in line :) (love that braggin' hehehe)
Said by some of you:
"isn't adobe working on an online edition of photoshop? ifso this project will die :)"
"You mean like http://www.photoshoponline.com and photoshop express?"
You can't even paint or draw with the photoshoponline.com tool. And they require an account, just like me, but I'll change that soon enough. And how smart is it to make a introduction video showing how to create an account?... hahaha makes me laugh... On my intro video, I show how to design a pair of shoes... I'll say that, for photo manipulation its probably easier to use than my tool and probably also has more features for ajusting photos. But no page layout, no muliple objects, and many more no's, check previous posts were I compare to Aviary.
Said by Grand Arcanum:
"spider: there is no doubt a lot of nice code in your app...my personal opinion is that you just need to decide the apps main target audience and redesign the interface accordingly."
I think there are many people out there, that want to create a shirt or a pair of shoes with their own funny text or crazy looking drawings and painting. And these people want to do that without the need for spending big bucks, download & install software, search for fonts and cliparts and having to figure out a complex graphics editor ment for professionals, and having to figure out Zazzle's or Cafepress's system of creating products.
I try to serve that mass market, so the only misssing thing I need to do is making my tool easier to use. Which I think won't be that hard to accomplish. I need to have some feedback from users about what things to improve, because so far I have only followed my own instincts of usability... So I need to make stuff easier for them. That, together with marketing and business, will be where most of my focus will be going forward. With this first version, I have a very strong fundament, making that was the hardest part.
www.zazzle.com They are huge.. They have 3 million visitors a month, all I want to begin with is %1 or 30.000 users... If they would give me a hand, thats it I'll reach my goals....
Said by Dbug:
"Spider: You want one simple single advice? Just look at what is successful these days: It's Apple and the minimalistic approach to design. The 'less is more' or 'Keep it Simple Stupid' concepts."
When it comes to graphics tool, less is not more. When it comes to website design, you are right.... Don't my website design fit to that category ('less is more' or 'Keep it Simple Stupid')? I know its not that good loocking but its pretty barebones html. Soon enought it will updated.
I agree that Apple is the champ of hardware design. But I hate that when clicking on the Leopard desktop, it dont open a new window... F.ex when I click on the Firefox icon on the desktop, nothing happens if a Firefox app is already running. That sucks... One have to go to some menu and say open some pane... Sucks... MS did better job on Windows desktop when you click the icon, a window opens, thats the right behavior... And Windows file manager is better then Mac version too. You'll easely fill up the context menu (right mouse press) with nice apps... Love that... So after my Mac got stolen, I got the insurance money and moved back to Windows 7. Far from perfect but thats all we got besides Linux (will try Linux desktop too soon)... The IPhone and IPad, both rock, I love them, nice design and technology, but love them mostly because its so easy to get apps from the appstore.
And you guys say I have an attitude problem, well, look at Steve Jobs with all his Big Brother attitude, at least my bragging hurts nobody... Lots of nice companies like danish http://unity3d.com/unity loosing lots of money in with trashed development because of his latest monopol alike moves (No support for third party programming langues). But the US government will soon have an anti-trust case against Apple.
Said by Calexico:
"Name ANY successful web company that had a 5 year stealth period before rolling out their product. I would bet the average development time before release is between 3-12 months."
Google Wave perhaps? I'm not so sure but did'nt they spend 4-5 years coding it, you only heard about it last year right?
Does'nt this rhetoric sound familiar? http://www.markevanstech.com/2009/08/27/google-wave-is-well-interesting :) Reminds a whole lot about what some of you guys are saying here...
Good night...
Said by rpfr:
"I just started watching your video and can't decide wether it's a real life sartire or a joke.
Hint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyK-3Em8__c - he's doing it wrong, too."
I bet he made a gazillion dollars and got laid more then you ever will :)
I'm next in line :) (love that braggin' hehehe)
Said by some of you:
"isn't adobe working on an online edition of photoshop? ifso this project will die :)"
"You mean like http://www.photoshoponline.com and photoshop express?"
You can't even paint or draw with the photoshoponline.com tool. And they require an account, just like me, but I'll change that soon enough. And how smart is it to make a introduction video showing how to create an account?... hahaha makes me laugh... On my intro video, I show how to design a pair of shoes... I'll say that, for photo manipulation its probably easier to use than my tool and probably also has more features for ajusting photos. But no page layout, no muliple objects, and many more no's, check previous posts were I compare to Aviary.
Said by Grand Arcanum:
"spider: there is no doubt a lot of nice code in your app...my personal opinion is that you just need to decide the apps main target audience and redesign the interface accordingly."
I think there are many people out there, that want to create a shirt or a pair of shoes with their own funny text or crazy looking drawings and painting. And these people want to do that without the need for spending big bucks, download & install software, search for fonts and cliparts and having to figure out a complex graphics editor ment for professionals, and having to figure out Zazzle's or Cafepress's system of creating products.
I try to serve that mass market, so the only misssing thing I need to do is making my tool easier to use. Which I think won't be that hard to accomplish. I need to have some feedback from users about what things to improve, because so far I have only followed my own instincts of usability... So I need to make stuff easier for them. That, together with marketing and business, will be where most of my focus will be going forward. With this first version, I have a very strong fundament, making that was the hardest part.
www.zazzle.com They are huge.. They have 3 million visitors a month, all I want to begin with is %1 or 30.000 users... If they would give me a hand, thats it I'll reach my goals....
Said by Dbug:
"Spider: You want one simple single advice? Just look at what is successful these days: It's Apple and the minimalistic approach to design. The 'less is more' or 'Keep it Simple Stupid' concepts."
When it comes to graphics tool, less is not more. When it comes to website design, you are right.... Don't my website design fit to that category ('less is more' or 'Keep it Simple Stupid')? I know its not that good loocking but its pretty barebones html. Soon enought it will updated.
I agree that Apple is the champ of hardware design. But I hate that when clicking on the Leopard desktop, it dont open a new window... F.ex when I click on the Firefox icon on the desktop, nothing happens if a Firefox app is already running. That sucks... One have to go to some menu and say open some pane... Sucks... MS did better job on Windows desktop when you click the icon, a window opens, thats the right behavior... And Windows file manager is better then Mac version too. You'll easely fill up the context menu (right mouse press) with nice apps... Love that... So after my Mac got stolen, I got the insurance money and moved back to Windows 7. Far from perfect but thats all we got besides Linux (will try Linux desktop too soon)... The IPhone and IPad, both rock, I love them, nice design and technology, but love them mostly because its so easy to get apps from the appstore.
And you guys say I have an attitude problem, well, look at Steve Jobs with all his Big Brother attitude, at least my bragging hurts nobody... Lots of nice companies like danish http://unity3d.com/unity loosing lots of money in with trashed development because of his latest monopol alike moves (No support for third party programming langues). But the US government will soon have an anti-trust case against Apple.
Said by Calexico:
"Name ANY successful web company that had a 5 year stealth period before rolling out their product. I would bet the average development time before release is between 3-12 months."
Google Wave perhaps? I'm not so sure but did'nt they spend 4-5 years coding it, you only heard about it last year right?
Does'nt this rhetoric sound familiar? http://www.markevanstech.com/2009/08/27/google-wave-is-well-interesting :) Reminds a whole lot about what some of you guys are saying here...
Good night...
hey spider, instead of fighting these comments. why not just accept them and consider wheter you will follow them or not?
"Google Wave" ...
Google wave isn't a start up. And is has not caught on in any way so far, people are still puzzled about what to do with it.
Also, are you for real? You behave as if you were still stuck in the mental state of a 15 year old demo coder of the early nineties. ("Look at my 58 bobs! Fuckings to ...") But it's good entertainment, keep on.
Google wave isn't a start up. And is has not caught on in any way so far, people are still puzzled about what to do with it.
Also, are you for real? You behave as if you were still stuck in the mental state of a 15 year old demo coder of the early nineties. ("Look at my 58 bobs! Fuckings to ...") But it's good entertainment, keep on.
Quote:
I think you seriously misunderstood what marketing-people do. They take what you have and try to sell it - which no marketing guru on the planet will be able to do with what you currently have. What you need is a DESIGNER. Also, any marketing person (doesn't have to be very guru about it) would have told you to shut up on the internet about how great you are and how great your product is. It is a shame nobody was hired in time to stop you from doing that.
No gloom, you're the one confused. Marketing is the whole process of defining a product, getting it to the market, and improving it if there's still a market for it. It starts before any development does. You seem t o be talking about sales, which is a relatively small part of marketing.
Spider: One thing i don`t understand is that there is not alot of functionality to make your own graphics in your software, other then to import some picture made in another software. Or maybe it`s me that haven`t found that functionality yet? If there is alot of functionality, you don`t expose it easily in the user interface.
what's the point exactly?
Kusma: the marketing of a product that is already done is called sales, indeed. Since the product is already done WITHOUT any sort of market research or marketing involvement, getting people in at the very end to "fix the GUI" is a complete rubbish statement.
Also, marketing is the planning of a sale of a product - the development in this case isn't exclusive to programming, but the development of a product as a whole (as in: "product development", the stage before you actually start writing code) - in which market analysis of course plays a part, but it is not marketing per say.
Also, marketing is the planning of a sale of a product - the development in this case isn't exclusive to programming, but the development of a product as a whole (as in: "product development", the stage before you actually start writing code) - in which market analysis of course plays a part, but it is not marketing per say.
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but the interface is waaaay too complicated for the average users out there, which I assume is your target group.
It looks like it can do a lot of different things, but that interface will completely overwhelm your users. Most people won't bother looking at several >5min videos to learn it either. The average internet user is extremely impatient, and this just isn't "to the point" enough.
Keep things simple. That's why the other online design tools linked in this thread are way better imo. Should I ever need to do any gfx online, I'll use the one that doesn't require a degree in rocket science to operate, and the one that at least resembles the UI of the offline tools I'm already familiar with.
The tight integration to merch shopping is cool, and it's a great idea, but until you fix the interface, I strongly doubt this will go anywhere.
If I were you, I'd take it offline right away and fix the interface, 'cause you really don't want your potential users to be left with the first impression I'm (and probably several more in this thread) left with now. You really really need to fix this before going any further. Seriously. Fix it.
It looks like it can do a lot of different things, but that interface will completely overwhelm your users. Most people won't bother looking at several >5min videos to learn it either. The average internet user is extremely impatient, and this just isn't "to the point" enough.
Keep things simple. That's why the other online design tools linked in this thread are way better imo. Should I ever need to do any gfx online, I'll use the one that doesn't require a degree in rocket science to operate, and the one that at least resembles the UI of the offline tools I'm already familiar with.
The tight integration to merch shopping is cool, and it's a great idea, but until you fix the interface, I strongly doubt this will go anywhere.
If I were you, I'd take it offline right away and fix the interface, 'cause you really don't want your potential users to be left with the first impression I'm (and probably several more in this thread) left with now. You really really need to fix this before going any further. Seriously. Fix it.
btw. rocket science is easy but rocket engineering is hard :)
Quote:
Said by rpfr:
"I just started watching your video and can't decide wether it's a real life sartire or a joke.
Hint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyK-3Em8__c - he's doing it wrong, too."
I bet he made a gazillion dollars and got laid more then you ever will :)
I'm next in line :) (love that braggin' hehehe)
Since your current "marketing strategy" aims at utterly dumbass people, why exactly are you bothering sceners with your "product" then?
No doubt Databecker-Users might love your tool, but you don't expect to find any around here - do you?
Said by Calexico:
"Google wave isn't a start up. And is has not caught on in any way so far, people are still puzzled about what to do with it."
You did not mention anything about I had to be a start-up, dont change the terms in the middle of the challenge :)
There are hundreds of millions with internet access, some will be using Wave, most will not... The same is true for GfxEditor.
Time is on my side. I'm 37, lots of time to work, and I love my job of CEO for my company. Its from my own home and I have this master plan: "5 years developing, 3 months making a nice package, next 5 years trying to make millions", 5 years later: "I'm 42 years, have a bunch of crap turtoial videos online, got laid more then any of you and am driving an Aston Martin" :)
"Also, are you for real? You behave as if you were still stuck in the mental state of a 15 year old demo coder of the early nineties. ("Look at my 58 bobs! Fuckings to ...") But it's good entertainment, keep on."
You guys have no idea how much fun I'm having on this thread :) Been laughing my ass off at several moments :)
Said by kusma:
"Spider: One thing i don`t understand is that there is not alot of functionality to make your own graphics in your software, other then to import some picture made in another software. Or maybe it`s me that haven`t found that functionality yet? If there is alot of functionality, you don`t expose it easily in the user interface."
I recommend everybody to watch the tutorial videos "Part 1 of 2 - Marquee Selections" and "Part 1 of 2 - Marquee Selections". I demonstrate the different graphical objects. Watch the "Vector drawing" videos and all the others... On pretty all videos I create graphics from scratch using images, and other stuff. I'm not bulshitting when I say its a great tool.
Said by wb:
"It looks like it can do a lot of different things, but that interface will completely overwhelm your users. Most people won't bother looking at several >5min videos to learn it either. The average internet user is extremely impatient, and this just isn't "to the point" enough."
I just need to make it easier to use, perhaps by adding a bunch of wizards or something else, I'll figure it out soon. This is a challence that is easy to solv, I'm not worried at all. It's only some design & programming that need to be done. Its just the skin that need a make up, the platform is ready.
And for those that don't want to design because they dont have time or the will to learn, they can go and by a beatyfull t-shirt or shoes from my Gallery. But one day, when they are bored to death, or their girl friend, they'll go to the editor (at that time it'll be better then now) and they will give it another go.
Said by wb:
"Keep things simple. That's why the other online design tools linked in this thread are way better imo. Should I ever need to do any gfx online, I'll use the one that doesn't require a degree in rocket science to operate, and the one that at least resembles the UI of the offline tools I'm already familiar with"
During the development of GfxEditor, I'll did check all the other tools, so what some are saying here that I just spent 5 years coding in blind, is not the fact. I had all the other online tool to checkout. And what's the point of doing another photoshop clone, like they'll doing? I wanted something frsh and new, mix the world of DTP with the word of image editing. I have done that. Besides I agree with lots of things said here.
"If I were you, I'd take it offline right away and fix the interface, 'cause you really don't want your potential users to be left with the first impression I'm (and probably several more in this thread) left with now. You really really need to fix this before going any further. Seriously. Fix it."
and said by rpfr:
"Since your current "marketing strategy" aims at utterly dumbass people, why exactly are you bothering sceners with your "product" then?"
I disagree! the reason I have to do some refactoring and a little bit of re-designing now, is because GfxEditor was in stealth mode for 5 years. So I'm doing the right thing going out with an "open-beta" release. The users I have now, should already know its a beta release (its all over my website and my posts) and they are kind-of beta testers... Read other previous post on this thread where I posted the definition of "beta software". Besides, during the beta phase, I'll probably end up with 500-1000 users. not more, I'm not doing any marketing campaign, I'm recruting users myself on different forums. I started recruiting 30 Zazzle sellers at www.zazzle.com, now doing the same here, also there I got a lot of people critisizing GfxEditor, but I always end up with some users and they have been given me some nice feedback, just like the users I'm getting here are doing.
Thank you for being my beta-users :)
"Google wave isn't a start up. And is has not caught on in any way so far, people are still puzzled about what to do with it."
You did not mention anything about I had to be a start-up, dont change the terms in the middle of the challenge :)
There are hundreds of millions with internet access, some will be using Wave, most will not... The same is true for GfxEditor.
Time is on my side. I'm 37, lots of time to work, and I love my job of CEO for my company. Its from my own home and I have this master plan: "5 years developing, 3 months making a nice package, next 5 years trying to make millions", 5 years later: "I'm 42 years, have a bunch of crap turtoial videos online, got laid more then any of you and am driving an Aston Martin" :)
"Also, are you for real? You behave as if you were still stuck in the mental state of a 15 year old demo coder of the early nineties. ("Look at my 58 bobs! Fuckings to ...") But it's good entertainment, keep on."
You guys have no idea how much fun I'm having on this thread :) Been laughing my ass off at several moments :)
Said by kusma:
"Spider: One thing i don`t understand is that there is not alot of functionality to make your own graphics in your software, other then to import some picture made in another software. Or maybe it`s me that haven`t found that functionality yet? If there is alot of functionality, you don`t expose it easily in the user interface."
I recommend everybody to watch the tutorial videos "Part 1 of 2 - Marquee Selections" and "Part 1 of 2 - Marquee Selections". I demonstrate the different graphical objects. Watch the "Vector drawing" videos and all the others... On pretty all videos I create graphics from scratch using images, and other stuff. I'm not bulshitting when I say its a great tool.
Said by wb:
"It looks like it can do a lot of different things, but that interface will completely overwhelm your users. Most people won't bother looking at several >5min videos to learn it either. The average internet user is extremely impatient, and this just isn't "to the point" enough."
I just need to make it easier to use, perhaps by adding a bunch of wizards or something else, I'll figure it out soon. This is a challence that is easy to solv, I'm not worried at all. It's only some design & programming that need to be done. Its just the skin that need a make up, the platform is ready.
And for those that don't want to design because they dont have time or the will to learn, they can go and by a beatyfull t-shirt or shoes from my Gallery. But one day, when they are bored to death, or their girl friend, they'll go to the editor (at that time it'll be better then now) and they will give it another go.
Said by wb:
"Keep things simple. That's why the other online design tools linked in this thread are way better imo. Should I ever need to do any gfx online, I'll use the one that doesn't require a degree in rocket science to operate, and the one that at least resembles the UI of the offline tools I'm already familiar with"
During the development of GfxEditor, I'll did check all the other tools, so what some are saying here that I just spent 5 years coding in blind, is not the fact. I had all the other online tool to checkout. And what's the point of doing another photoshop clone, like they'll doing? I wanted something frsh and new, mix the world of DTP with the word of image editing. I have done that. Besides I agree with lots of things said here.
"If I were you, I'd take it offline right away and fix the interface, 'cause you really don't want your potential users to be left with the first impression I'm (and probably several more in this thread) left with now. You really really need to fix this before going any further. Seriously. Fix it."
and said by rpfr:
"Since your current "marketing strategy" aims at utterly dumbass people, why exactly are you bothering sceners with your "product" then?"
I disagree! the reason I have to do some refactoring and a little bit of re-designing now, is because GfxEditor was in stealth mode for 5 years. So I'm doing the right thing going out with an "open-beta" release. The users I have now, should already know its a beta release (its all over my website and my posts) and they are kind-of beta testers... Read other previous post on this thread where I posted the definition of "beta software". Besides, during the beta phase, I'll probably end up with 500-1000 users. not more, I'm not doing any marketing campaign, I'm recruting users myself on different forums. I started recruiting 30 Zazzle sellers at www.zazzle.com, now doing the same here, also there I got a lot of people critisizing GfxEditor, but I always end up with some users and they have been given me some nice feedback, just like the users I'm getting here are doing.
Thank you for being my beta-users :)
Spider: you seem to quite often misquote. You are aware that the author of a post is the handle that appear BELOW the post, not above?
tl;dr
This thread is fun!
Spider: The "we just need a few extra wizards and a new skin"-approach is what the Linux-developers have been trying for 10+ years now in regards to usability... didn't work so far.
Did'nt work so far? Where have you been living the last 2-3 years?
The creators of Linux have made millions. And Linux have millions of users. I'm a user, all GfxEditor servers are on Linux CentOS. And I will beusing Linux as dekstop soon enough. I'm tired of the slowness Windows handle threads. I miss the Amiga hardware! Why can't the PC also make use if hardware interupts, just like the Amiga had, It was perfect, no single app could stop the hardware.
The creators of Linux have made millions. And Linux have millions of users. I'm a user, all GfxEditor servers are on Linux CentOS. And I will beusing Linux as dekstop soon enough. I'm tired of the slowness Windows handle threads. I miss the Amiga hardware! Why can't the PC also make use if hardware interupts, just like the Amiga had, It was perfect, no single app could stop the hardware.
Quote:
I just need to make it easier to use, perhaps by adding a bunch of wizards or something else, I'll figure it out soon. This is a challence that is easy to solv
Yeah right, why do people study things like ui design, usability and interaction design at all? Piece of cake, hardcore coding is all that counts!
*Slam head on desk*
You obviously see design as nothing more than a nice wallpaper on a building which would be perfectly functional even without it. But it wont. The functionality of a tool like yours lies not only in the cool algos in your "AwesomeFilter()" function but also the process of people using it. And this process is something that you have to lay out a plan for in the very beginning of your development. I do not say that you did not spend a single thought on this, but your ideas follow a state of mind that every producer of technological goods (hardware or software) should overcome if they want to be successful.
Spider
With Linux on servers or professional workstations, yes. But that's not the market where usability matters most... and if I understood you correctly, you want to target the "average user".
Quote:
The creators of Linux have made millions.
With Linux on servers or professional workstations, yes. But that's not the market where usability matters most... and if I understood you correctly, you want to target the "average user".
I agree... I did spend hours and hours of thinking and brainstorming the design.. Smoked quite a few joints during the 5 years :)
I find it easy to use. I like my GUI. So I'm happy about it, my videos shows the process of creating a t-shirt in 3 minutes. After underatnding how to add a text object to the canvas (common, its straight forward) The editor already is on the "Standard tool" for creating graphical objects. It has already selected Text objects. All the user have to do is press 1 buton, and the text wiull be on the canvas. Whats difficult about that?
I takes 1 minute to create a tshirt with the text "Coders rock!" :)
I find it easy to use. I like my GUI. So I'm happy about it, my videos shows the process of creating a t-shirt in 3 minutes. After underatnding how to add a text object to the canvas (common, its straight forward) The editor already is on the "Standard tool" for creating graphical objects. It has already selected Text objects. All the user have to do is press 1 buton, and the text wiull be on the canvas. Whats difficult about that?
I takes 1 minute to create a tshirt with the text "Coders rock!" :)