Happy national "not voting conservative" day (UK)!
category: general [glöplog]
at least you get to vote. I can't.
yeah I think a hung parliament would potentially be great - they actually would have to make decisions instead of just following the whip, and it would also hopefully slow down the rate of stupid new laws being introduced.
Lib Dems for me. Up until a few weeks ago I was going to spoil my ballot because it looked like Conservatives would romp home with it, and choosing between Labour and Conservative is like choosing between dog vomit or rotten fish.
Lib Dems for me. Up until a few weeks ago I was going to spoil my ballot because it looked like Conservatives would romp home with it, and choosing between Labour and Conservative is like choosing between dog vomit or rotten fish.
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we've got a choice between the devil you know (labour), the devil you dont (lib dem) and .. the actual devil (tories).
Smash has leading.
But it leaves out the outrageous possibility to not choose "the devil" at all.
Well, for this thing to work, the police (i.e. executive power) must recognise that they're "landless peasants" too.
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choosing between Labour and Conservative is like choosing between dog vomit or rotten fish.
And what if it's a hung parliament and labour + conservatives form an unholy alliance? :O
navis, i never understood that poster. the people of europe have to rise up because greek governments lied about their money situation for years? isn't that a greek issue? :-)
jumping in here.
Skrebbel, since it's a currency for 16 nations, it isn't a greek issue any more since 2002. Banks don't know borders. European banks own the mother-load of the greek bonds.
And the "poster" (i.e. world-communism-propaganda) won't help in solving the situation, rather than igniting a violent "revolution" instead of a reasonable _evolution_ of society.
To make an evolution of society work, the peoples (yea, with an 's' at the end) must turn away from what makes them to slaves. The currency of the Makers & Shakers.
Once you don't use their money (it never was your money) you're free to create a regional currency system that's used for its original purpose.
The hard part is to get this done without plunging into chaos and falling again for either side of the Hegelian Dialectic (e.g. fascism or communism).
@psionice:
Labour + Tories together ?
Take it from a german... you're screwed hard then. We had this bollocks from 2005-2009.
Skrebbel, since it's a currency for 16 nations, it isn't a greek issue any more since 2002. Banks don't know borders. European banks own the mother-load of the greek bonds.
And the "poster" (i.e. world-communism-propaganda) won't help in solving the situation, rather than igniting a violent "revolution" instead of a reasonable _evolution_ of society.
To make an evolution of society work, the peoples (yea, with an 's' at the end) must turn away from what makes them to slaves. The currency of the Makers & Shakers.
Once you don't use their money (it never was your money) you're free to create a regional currency system that's used for its original purpose.
The hard part is to get this done without plunging into chaos and falling again for either side of the Hegelian Dialectic (e.g. fascism or communism).
@psionice:
Labour + Tories together ?
Take it from a german... you're screwed hard then. We had this bollocks from 2005-2009.
Ahh fuck. People voted conservative. At least they won't have a majority.
skrebbel etc:
The issue at stake here is not the technicality of the bail-out package given to Greece by the EU. It is about the realization that common people's wealth, generated over the past 30 years has been misused/looted by politicians and lobbyists, either because of greed or incompetence. And this is happening only in Greece (our GDP went up 50% since the 80s - but not for the common folk, quite the opposite) but in other PIIGS states and probably in the "austere" and "organized" north as well.
For example, the *people* of Greece didn't put their country into the eurozone. It was the pan-european politicians who *knew* already that the Greek state was in mess (falsified data, dept/GDP too high etc.) but continued as if everything would be alright in the future- after all, if you run out of money you can always borrow some more. The situation was very well known since at least before the olympic games yet they all let us go on a spending binge (with other people's money) and create a myriad of bubbles (property, lending, stock market etc.) where common people lost *a lot* of money. This is a crime nobody is taking the responsibility for.
But the solution from IMF and EU is: past is past, just *borrow* some more at 5% rate while *we* borrow from the market at 2%. Germany will make a couple of billions in the long term from all this. What, I heard you say, this 3% justifies the risk of the country going bankrupt? But that's what securities are for. State owned organizations, land, who knows maybe in the future some islands too. Or the acropolis as those superiority-complex scumbag nazis suggest:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/04/greece-sell-islands-german-mps
And just to give another perspective as to what is happening in Greece at the moment consider this: the new laws imposed by EU/IMF mean that pretty much most families are going to lose around 300E *per month* of income. And that is without taking into account VAT, tobacco alcohol gasoline rises (+10% in everything). Pensions go down too. Blanket rule, same for all, healthy sick or sidelined.
I don't know anybody who has 300 extra euros per month. So what is going to happen? only the people of Greece are going to be fucked month in month out for another 20 years. To pay back the banks, the lawyers, the trusts, the loan sharks etc. etc. And maybe if they fail then mr. Nazi will make his dream come true: a peaceful island of his own in the idyllic setting of the aegean sea.
The issue at stake here is not the technicality of the bail-out package given to Greece by the EU. It is about the realization that common people's wealth, generated over the past 30 years has been misused/looted by politicians and lobbyists, either because of greed or incompetence. And this is happening only in Greece (our GDP went up 50% since the 80s - but not for the common folk, quite the opposite) but in other PIIGS states and probably in the "austere" and "organized" north as well.
For example, the *people* of Greece didn't put their country into the eurozone. It was the pan-european politicians who *knew* already that the Greek state was in mess (falsified data, dept/GDP too high etc.) but continued as if everything would be alright in the future- after all, if you run out of money you can always borrow some more. The situation was very well known since at least before the olympic games yet they all let us go on a spending binge (with other people's money) and create a myriad of bubbles (property, lending, stock market etc.) where common people lost *a lot* of money. This is a crime nobody is taking the responsibility for.
But the solution from IMF and EU is: past is past, just *borrow* some more at 5% rate while *we* borrow from the market at 2%. Germany will make a couple of billions in the long term from all this. What, I heard you say, this 3% justifies the risk of the country going bankrupt? But that's what securities are for. State owned organizations, land, who knows maybe in the future some islands too. Or the acropolis as those superiority-complex scumbag nazis suggest:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/04/greece-sell-islands-german-mps
And just to give another perspective as to what is happening in Greece at the moment consider this: the new laws imposed by EU/IMF mean that pretty much most families are going to lose around 300E *per month* of income. And that is without taking into account VAT, tobacco alcohol gasoline rises (+10% in everything). Pensions go down too. Blanket rule, same for all, healthy sick or sidelined.
I don't know anybody who has 300 extra euros per month. So what is going to happen? only the people of Greece are going to be fucked month in month out for another 20 years. To pay back the banks, the lawyers, the trusts, the loan sharks etc. etc. And maybe if they fail then mr. Nazi will make his dream come true: a peaceful island of his own in the idyllic setting of the aegean sea.
whats even more hefty:
germany is "helping" greece now, by having no money emselves !
they lend emselves money from nowhere since the crisis got the world ! ( thats a lie ! they did so way longer already ! )
and now they do as if everything would be alright, just as greece did before some numbers went out that shouldnt have...
i guess all of the "western" world is build upon not-existing-money ! ;)
the cake is a lie !
germany is "helping" greece now, by having no money emselves !
they lend emselves money from nowhere since the crisis got the world ! ( thats a lie ! they did so way longer already ! )
and now they do as if everything would be alright, just as greece did before some numbers went out that shouldnt have...
i guess all of the "western" world is build upon not-existing-money ! ;)
the cake is a lie !
built*
@Navis:
Short question on what the greek finance minister proposed in his tax reform programme.
In this he postulated that in future there will be a limit on cash- transactions (e.g. paying a used car in cash)
of EUR 1,500.-
Every transaction above that point by law shall be done cashless.
Did you hear about that and is the greek gov. implementing such legeslation ?
source: Reuters
Beg your pardon, Navis, but WE (germans) won't.
Case is this:
German banks fraudulently invested in AAA rated crap (CDS, COD) and eventually in 2008 faced bankrupcy,
got bailed out with tax payer money (especially HRE and KfW, Commerzbank too).
NOW, these quasi state-owned banks did buy (on gov. order) the last greek bonds that got issued some weeks ago before the downgrade to junkbond.
Next step according to Schäuble (acting as "finance minister") is to give (future) german tax income to the IMF that, in turn, is spreading the money to the creditors of Greece - that is, the banks that got Greece into the shit!
So neither you greeks nor us germans will get ANYTHING but grief out of the whole sh'bang.
Keep in mind that, after the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, the governments finally lost any souvereignty that they had left inside the EU!
So in essence "our" governments are rogue and are following their creditors (i.e. the bankster cunts).
Propaganda:
So in Greece the yellow press and TV flamed against Germany, wanting back the "Nazi Gold" (which got taken by the Allied Forces, jsyk) or with bolony stories that Greece "should sell some islands" to gain liquidity.
Well, here in Germany the yellow press and TV shouted against Greece, that they are lazy scumbags going into retirement at about 50 (which is a blatant lie), now "demanding our tax money".
Both of it is total bollocks and is only planted to distract the greek and german people from who the real enemy is.
Short question on what the greek finance minister proposed in his tax reform programme.
In this he postulated that in future there will be a limit on cash- transactions (e.g. paying a used car in cash)
of EUR 1,500.-
Every transaction above that point by law shall be done cashless.
Did you hear about that and is the greek gov. implementing such legeslation ?
source: Reuters
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Germany will make a couple of billions in the long term from all this.
Beg your pardon, Navis, but WE (germans) won't.
Case is this:
German banks fraudulently invested in AAA rated crap (CDS, COD) and eventually in 2008 faced bankrupcy,
got bailed out with tax payer money (especially HRE and KfW, Commerzbank too).
NOW, these quasi state-owned banks did buy (on gov. order) the last greek bonds that got issued some weeks ago before the downgrade to junkbond.
Next step according to Schäuble (acting as "finance minister") is to give (future) german tax income to the IMF that, in turn, is spreading the money to the creditors of Greece - that is, the banks that got Greece into the shit!
So neither you greeks nor us germans will get ANYTHING but grief out of the whole sh'bang.
Keep in mind that, after the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, the governments finally lost any souvereignty that they had left inside the EU!
So in essence "our" governments are rogue and are following their creditors (i.e. the bankster cunts).
Propaganda:
So in Greece the yellow press and TV flamed against Germany, wanting back the "Nazi Gold" (which got taken by the Allied Forces, jsyk) or with bolony stories that Greece "should sell some islands" to gain liquidity.
Well, here in Germany the yellow press and TV shouted against Greece, that they are lazy scumbags going into retirement at about 50 (which is a blatant lie), now "demanding our tax money".
Both of it is total bollocks and is only planted to distract the greek and german people from who the real enemy is.
real enemy: do you feel the hate breeding while the truth enters sunlight ? :p
its all gonna reflect back !
soon !
its all gonna reflect back !
soon !
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n this he postulated that in future there will be a limit on cash- transactions (e.g. paying a used car in cash)
of EUR 1,500.-
Every transaction above that point by law shall be done cashless.
Did you hear about that and is the greek gov. implementing such legeslation ?
I'm not aware of that.
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Propaganda:
So in Greece the yellow press and TV flamed against Germany, wanting back the "Nazi Gold" (which got taken by the Allied Forces, jsyk) or with bolony stories that Greece "should sell some islands" to gain liquidity.
Exactly. Some of our politicians too have been talking nonsense, trying to appear bigger than they really are. I wasn't referring to the common people but to those who were given a stand, either in politics or media.
Who is going to pocket the extra 2-3% (or, as it is right now with bond spreads so high, even more) ? Something tells me it is not the common people!
People in Athens yesterday wanted to get into the parliament and beat them up. They don't want to beat up the people of Germany, France or Spain but our corrupt/incompetent politicians and about 300 odd families that are the ruling class. There is a lot of anger.
@Navis:
about the cash-transaction rule.
Then brace yourself for being stalked by the tax-department when you buy some tech stuff or anything else above 1,500 in cash money. It'll be illegal according to "your" government.
You should see the pattern by now. Greece is strategic chess-move in a quasi financial war.
The key is to get the executive powers turning over to the side of the people - peacefully.
Once the govt. has lost it's "billy club" they're gone.
about the cash-transaction rule.
Then brace yourself for being stalked by the tax-department when you buy some tech stuff or anything else above 1,500 in cash money. It'll be illegal according to "your" government.
You should see the pattern by now. Greece is strategic chess-move in a quasi financial war.
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There is a lot of anger.
The key is to get the executive powers turning over to the side of the people - peacefully.
Once the govt. has lost it's "billy club" they're gone.
@navis
about the Anger:
i just wonder why the riots had to start in Greece !
normally France starts Revolutions ! vive la revolution !
also normally other Euro-Regions should have been rioting for years already considering whats going on and how aware everyone could be of all it ! ( yes, French people did so years ago already, but no1 joined em this time ! :/ )
in fact i dont wonder at all, they just released some data that shouldnt have got official until the biggest holes got fixed...portugal and greece were made public just so no1 thinks about whats wrong in their own states anymore ;)
so you got fucked and people really swallowed it this far...giving em states like germany who play as if they would still be fluid the chance to recover...
just i dont think they get away with it ;)
internet has to spray the truth sooner or faster !
what is in needance nowadays is some real hardcore-approach, getting back to anarchy for some time !
eventho no1 knows how long that will/could take, i believe in the internet and ppl finding together by inventing some "stupid" rules to find some new way of living in the end !
sounds like retarded in the first read, but i thought about it for like 15 years already, so...maybe just bother to think about it for 5 minutes and then decide to stop or continue following thinking about this way of a possibilty !
about the Anger:
i just wonder why the riots had to start in Greece !
normally France starts Revolutions ! vive la revolution !
also normally other Euro-Regions should have been rioting for years already considering whats going on and how aware everyone could be of all it ! ( yes, French people did so years ago already, but no1 joined em this time ! :/ )
in fact i dont wonder at all, they just released some data that shouldnt have got official until the biggest holes got fixed...portugal and greece were made public just so no1 thinks about whats wrong in their own states anymore ;)
so you got fucked and people really swallowed it this far...giving em states like germany who play as if they would still be fluid the chance to recover...
just i dont think they get away with it ;)
internet has to spray the truth sooner or faster !
what is in needance nowadays is some real hardcore-approach, getting back to anarchy for some time !
eventho no1 knows how long that will/could take, i believe in the internet and ppl finding together by inventing some "stupid" rules to find some new way of living in the end !
sounds like retarded in the first read, but i thought about it for like 15 years already, so...maybe just bother to think about it for 5 minutes and then decide to stop or continue following thinking about this way of a possibilty !
But what about the poor Brits with their "hung parliament".
In the end it won't matter who will dominate the parliament as long as it is the Queen who
signs the laws and it's the City Of London (the Crown) that dictates the financial politics with no
accountability whatsoever.
Be it a red, a blue or a yellow tie.
In the end it won't matter who will dominate the parliament as long as it is the Queen who
signs the laws and it's the City Of London (the Crown) that dictates the financial politics with no
accountability whatsoever.
Be it a red, a blue or a yellow tie.
you know it: it could all get redundant, if just some more ppl would get like the "fucked" portuguese/greeks ( still missing some riots in portugal tho ! :/ ) paired with the "fucked" french youth and all em "fucked" individuals, which should be considered more than 50% in every land anyway btw, that would riot, if they´d know some1 else wanting to !
i´d like to riot against the whole world, just for the humans stop killing the earth...and i am some fuking egoiste in reallife :P ( but still i try to hurt earth as small as possible, call me eco ! )
i dont waste any thinkings in which party wins or not anymore, i just make my cross and wonder when the final day of change will come finally...like its today, i´d say ppl wanna get fucked for some more years, but there´ll be a point when chaos-math kicks in and reliefs itself as the only truth !
^^ take all of this knowing i give a fuck about being PC ;)
also i am german ! fuck germany !
PUNKROCK 4 LIFE ! ( <- to me punk is freedom of everything and freedom with everything on earth ! call me hippie-punk ! )
last words: RIOTING is not OK ! doesnt prove anything, just that you are in anger, so better get the best weapon in the world, able to destroy it all, and blackmail the world ! ;) <- thats atleast consequent if you wanna get radical !
theres no way everyone would want to go, so just let it all stay as is ! :/
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
i´d like to riot against the whole world, just for the humans stop killing the earth...and i am some fuking egoiste in reallife :P ( but still i try to hurt earth as small as possible, call me eco ! )
i dont waste any thinkings in which party wins or not anymore, i just make my cross and wonder when the final day of change will come finally...like its today, i´d say ppl wanna get fucked for some more years, but there´ll be a point when chaos-math kicks in and reliefs itself as the only truth !
^^ take all of this knowing i give a fuck about being PC ;)
also i am german ! fuck germany !
PUNKROCK 4 LIFE ! ( <- to me punk is freedom of everything and freedom with everything on earth ! call me hippie-punk ! )
last words: RIOTING is not OK ! doesnt prove anything, just that you are in anger, so better get the best weapon in the world, able to destroy it all, and blackmail the world ! ;) <- thats atleast consequent if you wanna get radical !
theres no way everyone would want to go, so just let it all stay as is ! :/
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
so who won?
Nobody. But especially not the british public.
labour lost a lot while the tori got close to the magic mark...but this is like a "patt" in chess ! dunno the english word , sorry ! maybe tori can build something connecting with another party now, being the most_voted !
Queen only lost once ! their Singer ! :(
so: Liz WON !
Queen only lost once ! their Singer ! :(
so: Liz WON !
You know what ?
Nothing will happen with the people in europe, except those who are already on the rampage.
Why?
Face the time frame of the whole thing.
The football world cup is soon to take off. So the football nations will yet again fall for ye olde
roman trick "bread and games". The legeslation which is sure to happen all over the place
inbetween these days of the world cup won't get any public scrutiny, and after the huuuge hangover the
people will recognise months later, that they have been fucked once again by their masters.
Also the infamous Bilderberg meeting will take place near Barcelona in Sitges from June 3-6 this year,
right before the world cup starts.
Thus, instead of watching the bloody matches, keep an eye on what's happening in your country.
Nothing will happen with the people in europe, except those who are already on the rampage.
Why?
Face the time frame of the whole thing.
The football world cup is soon to take off. So the football nations will yet again fall for ye olde
roman trick "bread and games". The legeslation which is sure to happen all over the place
inbetween these days of the world cup won't get any public scrutiny, and after the huuuge hangover the
people will recognise months later, that they have been fucked once again by their masters.
Also the infamous Bilderberg meeting will take place near Barcelona in Sitges from June 3-6 this year,
right before the world cup starts.
Thus, instead of watching the bloody matches, keep an eye on what's happening in your country.
^^ what he said !
( humankind, thats true AND lame ! :p )
( humankind, thats true AND lame ! :p )
dodge, i was actually asking a sane person (navis), not a bitter conspiracy theorist who will never be happy with any situation (you).
navis, thanks for laying that out in a rather sane way. i see that the situation looks pretty impossible, and i understand people are mad. is there any solution, however? do the rioters propose any alternative? or are they just mad that the situation ever got this far?
ps. calling the germans "scumbag nazis" just because 2 of them said something mean doesn't show a strong understanding of democratic principles among the greek crowd.
navis, thanks for laying that out in a rather sane way. i see that the situation looks pretty impossible, and i understand people are mad. is there any solution, however? do the rioters propose any alternative? or are they just mad that the situation ever got this far?
ps. calling the germans "scumbag nazis" just because 2 of them said something mean doesn't show a strong understanding of democratic principles among the greek crowd.
Just as I thought. Conservatives win, but the losing parties will lead the country.
We have the illusion of voting and get to put an X on a piece of paper, but we don't get any say who runs the country.
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at least you get to vote. I can't.
We have the illusion of voting and get to put an X on a piece of paper, but we don't get any say who runs the country.
