Agenda Circling Forth - soundtrack discussion
category: music [glöplog]
Let me help you there:
This is the topic that divides opinions (and is obviously beaten to death like all other holy wars)
This on the other hand, doesn't divide anyone. It's fucking obvious.
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if it is art or not, legal or should it be legal etc etc.. those talks will go on forever.
This is the topic that divides opinions (and is obviously beaten to death like all other holy wars)
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what pissed off those opposed to this soundtrack is the lack of credit. this was not sampling, it was theft.
This on the other hand, doesn't divide anyone. It's fucking obvious.
What irks me most is that some people tend to bind copyright with the record labels and the industry in general. In every work the copyright is owned by its creator the moment the work is finished, regardless of whether it's being financially exploited or the artist being under a record label. Not RIAA, not the record labels, not IFPI, but the artist themselves.
I'm not represented by any label, and I'm not financially exploiting my works (hell they're free to download all over the net), and I've also given my permission freely to all people who asked me to use some of my tunes in their works.
I will however go, even legally, after any person that uses my music without permission and without crediting the source, or even worse.. claiming to be their own (as it has happened once in the past for one of my very old tracked tunes).
As for the song in Agenda, the derivative work in my book is a very slight alteration of the original. A trip hop beat and some ugly repositioning of Queen of the Universe's musical segments, especially on the lyrics part. And though I think the original song is very nice (and admittedly very fitting with Agenda's visuals), I find the remix to be bad and uninspired.
Smash.. get reed back =)
I'm not represented by any label, and I'm not financially exploiting my works (hell they're free to download all over the net), and I've also given my permission freely to all people who asked me to use some of my tunes in their works.
I will however go, even legally, after any person that uses my music without permission and without crediting the source, or even worse.. claiming to be their own (as it has happened once in the past for one of my very old tracked tunes).
As for the song in Agenda, the derivative work in my book is a very slight alteration of the original. A trip hop beat and some ugly repositioning of Queen of the Universe's musical segments, especially on the lyrics part. And though I think the original song is very nice (and admittedly very fitting with Agenda's visuals), I find the remix to be bad and uninspired.
Smash.. get reed back =)
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if someone would love to remix some song, and can not get the legal rights to do it.. i say fuck it, go ahead and do it - and then credit the work :)
I'm going out on a limb here but it's completely up to the creator of a piece of music to see if it's actually a rework of a piece or a completely new one, with sounds just sourced from someone else's piece. There's many examples in both directions (doing remixes and crediting them - and doing /complete new pieces/ out of existing songs). We feel that the work we do with Varia is of the latter, and we do NOT intend to credit any sample sources even after this "controversy" unless we clearly feel like the end product is a remix, and not a new piece. There's countless of artists who work like this, though mostly in the french music circles. Daft Punk anyone?
The only reason I feel we should've credited it here is because of BP's organization and because they would take any shit hitting the fan, which I did not realize at all before the party. 1in10 agrees with me on this completely (after chatting with him in private), so I apologize to BP's organizers for the lack of forethought on both of our behalf.
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In every work the copyright is owned by its creator the moment the work is finished, regardless of whether it's being financially exploited or the artist being under a record label. Not RIAA, not the record labels, not IFPI, but the artist themselves.
you've obviously never signed a record contract.
.. or a publishing contract for that matter. :)
I remember playing Ultima V. When you took a torch off a wall it said "BORROWED!" and unlike eating crop from a field while starving, this would not cost you any karma. Classic.
okay, i'll take my explanation of topic drift back.
what dominator & ps & blamstrain said!
you know the pirate roots of the demoscene ? then Gloom is exactly at the opposite :-)
blamstrain: daft punk do credit most of their samples in their album leaflets, but indeed many people do not know that most of their hit tunes are borrowed from rare funk songs (i had opened a thread about it to express my disappointment)
you know the pirate roots of the demoscene ? then Gloom is exactly at the opposite :-)
blamstrain: daft punk do credit most of their samples in their album leaflets, but indeed many people do not know that most of their hit tunes are borrowed from rare funk songs (i had opened a thread about it to express my disappointment)
havoc: if your words are meant to target me then you've failed at detecting a funny ad hoc pouetizing :p
What Gloom is saying is very reasonable. There is a huuge difference between the following:
* somebody making a demo that is heavily influenced by (for example) one of our demos: transitions, colors, guitar music etc. etc.
* somebody copying the exact scenes, changing the colors a bit, the textures a bit, adding a new beat on top of guitars and then passing it as theirs without references - it would be pretty stupid to do so in the demoscene, but you get the point.
It has happened to me to be asked permission to use videos of our work with changed textures (to say, for example, "buy your groceries from Tescos" instead of "ASD presents planet risk") and I always say yes; although I think it is lame. But the mere fact that they ask first shows that they recognize who put the original time and effort into creating the video in the first place. In any other case (sole exception beiing satyre) I'd be pretty pissed off.
and something else, from a strictly legal perspective, the argumennt "hey we didn't make any financial gain from all this" is not even valid: party prizes are still party prizes, it is not a great sum of money but still not zero.
but I said before, agenda cicling forth would probably have won even if it was in mute.
* somebody making a demo that is heavily influenced by (for example) one of our demos: transitions, colors, guitar music etc. etc.
* somebody copying the exact scenes, changing the colors a bit, the textures a bit, adding a new beat on top of guitars and then passing it as theirs without references - it would be pretty stupid to do so in the demoscene, but you get the point.
It has happened to me to be asked permission to use videos of our work with changed textures (to say, for example, "buy your groceries from Tescos" instead of "ASD presents planet risk") and I always say yes; although I think it is lame. But the mere fact that they ask first shows that they recognize who put the original time and effort into creating the video in the first place. In any other case (sole exception beiing satyre) I'd be pretty pissed off.
and something else, from a strictly legal perspective, the argumennt "hey we didn't make any financial gain from all this" is not even valid: party prizes are still party prizes, it is not a great sum of money but still not zero.
but I said before, agenda cicling forth would probably have won even if it was in mute.
aftu: Your cluelessness reaches new heights - congratulations :)
has a good demo (not a 1k) been already bold enough to show up at a party without any music ?
Navis: it's unfair (as gloom did) to exclude remixing as a creative and artistic way... as long as proper credits are stated.
by the way, dissing Suicide Barbie because it has been influenced by a photograph and because its tune is a remix... is plain stupid :S
it's still one of the greatest demos made for a recent console.
some comparison has been cleverly made with movies : if you are a film lover (cinephile) then you know that most modern successful movies are blatant rehashes of old ones! some call that phenomenon 'references' or 'tributes' (lol).
the scene doesn't need any taliban nor ayatollah.
it's still one of the greatest demos made for a recent console.
some comparison has been cleverly made with movies : if you are a film lover (cinephile) then you know that most modern successful movies are blatant rehashes of old ones! some call that phenomenon 'references' or 'tributes' (lol).
the scene doesn't need any taliban nor ayatollah.
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I'm going out on a limb here but it's completely up to the creator of a piece of music to see if it's actually a rework of a piece or a completely new one, with sounds just sourced from someone else's piece. There's many examples in both directions (doing remixes and crediting them - and doing /complete new pieces/ out of existing songs). We feel that the work we do with Varia is of the latter, and we do NOT intend to credit any sample sources even after this "controversy" unless we clearly feel like the end product is a remix, and not a new piece. There's countless of artists who work like this, though mostly in the french music circles. Daft Punk anyone?
The only reason I feel we should've credited it here is because of BP's organization and because they would take any shit hitting the fan, which I did not realize at all before the party. 1in10 agrees with me on this completely (after chatting with him in private), so I apologize to BP's organizers for the lack of forethought on both of our behalf.
There! This makes much more sense than most people are blabbering. The difference with daft punk is that they _did_ ask permission to use all the samples (hence, liner notes) but then again, they had to put it on record.
Girl Talk on the other hand releases albums (which you can buy) with tons of samples that nobody got money for, but he does credit everybody in the liner notes. I think a simple mention would indeed have sufficed...
Now, how many of you cats will be disappointed when they find out Portishead's "Glory Box" is a full lift of Isaac Hayes "Ike's Rap II" ?
Portishead - Glory Box
Isaac Hayes - Ike's Rap II
speaking about Girl Talk, if someone has missed the great and enthusiastic documentary about him and remix culture : http://films.nfb.ca/rip-a-remix-manifesto/ :)
Aaaaah help. All this remix culture discussion should be held under a different topic otherwise the original issue will never come to an end.
Well it's a valid discussion I think. I'm certainly interested in seeing people's views using samples in demos competing in compos. :)
It's not like it's not happening since 1992 :)
I've always kept 99.9 percent of my beats out side the demoscene for good reason. Reading this topic just shows it's been a good decision.
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Did I? No.Navis: it's unfair (as gloom did) to exclude remixing as a creative and artistic way...
uh gloom: go to previous page.
lol rpfr: that's exactly the very point of the debate :p
should demoparties allow remixes ?
lol rpfr: that's exactly the very point of the debate :p
should demoparties allow remixes ?
aftu: No thanks. Feel free to quote me and explain to me exactly how what I said there got turned into what you claim I said. Go on, I'll wait.
"panic room" by Fairlight: the music makes me think so much about "Linkin Park" of "Matrix Reloaded". Anyway, I like this prod!
1995 soundtrack reminds me so much of the IT crowd tune...
variform reminds me so much of imatran voima..
mass effect 2 title tune reminds me so much of chaos theory soundtrack..
the desert dream soundtrack reminds me so much of the 2nd real soundtrack.. (or vice versa)
a part of the inconexia soundtrack reminds me so much of 2unlimited..
variform reminds me so much of imatran voima..
mass effect 2 title tune reminds me so much of chaos theory soundtrack..
the desert dream soundtrack reminds me so much of the 2nd real soundtrack.. (or vice versa)
a part of the inconexia soundtrack reminds me so much of 2unlimited..
