pouët.net

I mean this thread is simply ouch..

homos

I didn't found that boring. No matter how much it shows the same scenes all the time again and again (In a Kasparov style) I wasn't ever bore since my attention was dragged for a long time to watch again and again how much great detailed these crazy models were! If there was something to to make the watching interesting for long time, then it was the tremendous models than kept me an interest till the end... (And I wanted to see more :)

And don't tell me that I am a fucking gamer because I liked this demo and the usual anti 3d flyby propaganda! (Do you know that I am totally illiterate with Quake mouse look up and down control and new quakers and stuff? I played just once Counterstrike, got last! I know only Doom and I have years to engage in gaming since I discovered the demoscene! ;) neither I have to still get a life, because I vote for 3d flybyes and stuff! Silly :P

Anyways, I am another one of the few bad bitches who liked Adrenalin ;)

P.S. Sonnet is really boring yeah. I have to wait almost 5 minutes till it finally loads! For this reason ;)

And in case you started disliking the PC scene, I have an important message for you:

Join the CPC Scene!!! =)

A Spam movement sponsored by "The CPC Outreach group" ;)

Adrenaline deserves everything it got. It's only feeback, after all... not something everyone should accept as "the truth". Differnet audiences will respond differently.

If a demo wins a party, it only means it was the most well-liked. this doesn't necessarily mean it's the best demo, that's something individuals can decide for themselves. I have to see Adrenaline as soon as possible :)

zone: it gets annoying when your friends stop entering brilliant stuff on compos because they know their prod, despite how good it is, will never win anything if at all be preselected.
i dont like the doing prods for winning compos direction of the scene. if anyone does they should reavaluate their position. it's killing our scene, corrupting it from the inside, it's in our hands to cleanse it.

and i won't shutup until you all realize that having competitions is bad.

competitions are ok. but they are overrespected. problem is, usually when anything wins a big party it will become insanely popular for a period of time. then it will hit charts and due to that it will stay there almost forever.
now, what's wrong with it? it'll be tougher for next winners to get there etc and it'll eventually balance, you say. yeah, maybe, but some of the brilliant stuff that's not on top 5 for various reasons wont have a chance and this is filtering out quite effectively anything that is "too special".

but you know what? i'm just bitter for having my stuff like gamma 2 end up as 14th. ignore. stupid selfish rant.
(or maybe someday i'm gonna go thru my democollection and comment some 500 prods which have enjoyed practically nil knowledge and do so even less today. yeah right.)

competitions with rankings make only sense if the quality of the production entered is very varied. I claim that such rankings are
only correct in an immature scene, where only few can make great productions, few can make medium productions, and few can make
crappy productions.

Competitions can only make sense if there is an objective
quality measured, such as those you find in sports or games. In a
mature scene, where people express themselves with a
good degree of core skill and attention, competitions are only a
measurement of the average scener taste: as such, they are purely
a representation of an hypothetical, average scener whose opinions
and taste would be average.

So yeah, they are truly over-respected. Perhaps we should be
happy that they are failing consistently.. it's a proof that
diversity exists and that it's becoming harder and harder
to judge.

i haven't seen adrenaline myself alltho my personal oppinion is that you should always try to do constructive critisism which obviously is not the case here. 3d flyby or not.
Some people seem to have forgot why people do demos, we don't do this to earn money or a living (in most cases) we do it for fun.
These days lots of people think you have to release "state of the art" demos or consider to quit the scene, well, that was not the case back in the "good old" days, zillion of demos were released, and i was happy with everyone of them, even if i liked them or not. So, AEG keep on doing demos (3d flybys or not)...

Hello People out there,

Some of the Reasons why we - Haujobb - quit the scene for now is the first message by RYG. He is absolutely right. And the best Example of pure bashing, followed by the one who is likely to known as one of the main people who seems to critize all what he watched is the message after RYG's.
Sure, AEG's demo is not everyone's taste. But the reason, dear Macaw , that he won the compo was not your idiotic examples of lameness who you think voting is done on partys. It was because it looked awesome on the Bigscreen. and, no we didnt fake vote on our hjb prods or whatever you guys are thinking out there. on mekka symposium we kept our straps on and almost none of us voted as a signal out there. but again you with the squeeky shoes bashes against our prods. people who are constantly critizeing demos here with no deeper reason should prove that they can do it better. so go for it, for example macaw of bypass. or dr.strange....
see ya anyway on the next party. - jazz/(ex)haujobb

i haven't ever seen macaw posting a positive comment about any demo...

jazz: you are right in almost all points. but what I don't understand is why that should have made haujobb quit demomaking or the scene for now (if this isn't a promotional joke anyway...)?

I mean it's not that Haujobb isnt successful enough in what they do. This cannot be the reason. At least you've won major party after major party (well except mekka this year) and also got quite positive feedback on pouet for eg Elements or mother, mother, fukwit daddy (ignoring the usual ranters).

And for those discussions about arty-demos vs. 3d-flybys vs. fun-demos vs. code-demos vs. design-demos vs. epic-movie-demos vs. synchro-demos. These conflicts are almost as old as the scene! I rememember the code vs. design discussions on amiga, I remember the 3d vs. 2d discussions later on, I remember the flaming of "state of the art" for its "lame code" and so it continues on and on.

This doesnt mean that this is ok and one should not show respect for what others do, but honestly I can't understand why this annoyance should make haujobb quit making demos? It's not like everyone would thumb down your stuff...

Maybe you are just a bit tired of making demos at the moment?

Spin, that was only one of a few reasons. sorry i cant explain it that much further. email me :)

batman: that's because you have only seen the crappy demos, find any _good_ demos and you will find my thumbs up (the latest that spring in mind is the winner 64kb from MS).

so fuck you and your dog.

...you'd love to,right?

Anyway, it's all a bit tedious. People think something sucks and smack into the wall o' ignorance & disagreement. Not before long, people start calling eachother homos.

Yawn. Same old shit, it deserves a thumb down.

homo

you "demoscene-people" are funny, hehe :)
stop taking things so seriously.

- droid/(ex)haujobb

It seems that most pouet.net users are not belong to any scene. They only watch demos, watch gfx, listen to music. But not doing anything for the Scene. They make stupid comments on pouet.net. This suck. Adrenalin rockz. Macaw is talking shit as allways. So many bad comments on poeut.net about haujobb productions. It´s so fucking stupid. I hate 80% of this people here writing comments. The comments say nothing about a production. I see no respekt for the demomakers. I don´t wanna hear more comments. It´s not interesting. This is lame, not the productions are lame. It´s only a site. I can switch. thx.

FUCK YOU!

that´s the meaning.

i luv u all 2 *hali* *hug* *lääh* *runk*
huorat

In my last post here a couple of days ago, I asked a rhetorical question. It was about rating (a popular topic in the last days it seems) at parties. It was in the lines of "otherwise we won't need parties, right?". After reading ps' comments here it dawned to me: of course we need parties and the demos - but we don't need the competition anymore.

So here is my reasoning. In the earlier days we needed voting to pick up "the best production". And voting was actually easier, because the effort was somewhat "measurable". A better demo meant more polys on the screen and more effects.

As systems evolved, we can't count polys anymore. And as far as I understand it, we're not even trying. Nowadays most of us define demos as "art". So are by voting, aren't we really trying to measure art somehow? And by what standards would that be? Come to think of it, how do you measure art? Answer: you can't. So there goes the fucking subjectiveness.

The only thing we can do is trying to please the "customer" (= watcher). Basically we are doing small ads for a special target group of people: us.

One thing that throws me off is: so a demo can win a party, but gets mostly negative votes on pouet? How could that be? Well, it's possible because it is most likely coded just as a "party crasher". Nice effects, cool athmo, but only the first time to watch it. Does that make the demo bad? Nope, not really, it's just made for one special purpose: winning.

So why aren't we all coding just for the win here? The answer should be obvious: not everybody is content with coding popular stuff. If we call ourselves artists, we should evolve. Try to push our limits. And I don't mean the poly limit for christs sake. Try to do things nobody would think of. We spend years pushing hardware limits. Let's face it - we have the opportunity to do whatever we want and yet we still do the same old thing. Why not push our mind instead? Or even better yet: both.

Besides from meeting friends a party is a cool place for showing what you (and your group) have done the last time. Showing their new ideas and visions. A "rating" will take place anyway: either we like it or not. Either the crowd goes wild or it doesn't. Let's leave it there - why make an "official" rating? Just to say "I pleased the crowd best?" - because that's what it is.

I'll be honest: yes, I'm dreaming of coding the winning demo of one of the bigger parties. But you know what? I know that I'll be more content with the fact that people are actually watching it over and over again. That I toughed them somehow with my work. I code techdemos at work the whole time, why should I code one at home as well? Why not do something really special with the technology for once?

So the question arises: why do we have party voting? Everybody insits it isn't the price money. I guess it's the "5 minutes of fame factor". Standing up there, looking down on everybody. Let's face it - we don't get money for the countless hours of work, so this is the only reward we'd get. One may wonder "But the demo itself is the reward. The knowledge of doing what nobody else has done." Yeah right. Would work, but too bad we're humans.

So there goes the neverending problem: without our egos (and sceners are known to have a rather big one :) we would all be creating art happily ever after. So the question about having votings is a bigger one: are we content with just making art or do we need the popularity factor? And that's not an easy one. So my answer (for now) is: no, we don't need voting - it really is bad for some aspects of the scene. But we'll keep on doing it, because it's what we need sometimes when we code through yet another night: the tingling sensation of standing up there. Sorry ps, it would have been nice, I admit.

give jury awards.
have a public voting award aswell if you must.

it is imperative that all productions delivered get shown and attain an equal level of respect. if it insults your moral as an organizer (terribly bad quality) you can still disqualify/censor it from the party.

and dont give me that "there is no time for showing everything" excuse. you can show music and gfx entries at same time. no one ever uses that.
divide music entries by categories so you dont have to play 50 tracks of diferent styles in a row. reshow all the gfx entries on every music category.

how about an award to the most original demo? meaning a demo, that showed something new, never seen before? and keep the prize money in that case, it could motivate groups to try out new crazy stuff. jury voting should be involved in this case.

You are all unlikely to have sex with a woman (nice way to say 'homo')

dear ps: "if it insults your moral as an organizer (terribly bad quality) you can still disqualify/censor it from the party." would've meant that a great deal of releases at e.g. ms2k2 would NEVER have seen the light of day. this would never have been preselected if it wasn't for ile's charms ;)

What PS really wanna say is that HIS taste of demos are better than all the other attenders of mekka ... :)

ps > you suck =)

delax, your post made sense.

ps, showing music & gfx at the same time sounds like an idea to try somewhere sometime, can't say if it works, but sounds like it could.

stefan, you are a fucking idiot and one day I will kill you.

- droid/unique^(ex)haujobb