pouët.net

Hey guys,

Every month Scene Rep publishes its month e-zine, Scene Zine. It takes hours of work to bring this to you but we pride ourselves in being consistant. However it's becomming more difficult to contiue doing this if we don't get feedback. For instance for issue 10 we have NO user feedback which sucks ass.

So we've tried to make it easier for you. In issue 10 you'll find a feedback form to fill out with your email address and comments. Your email address will not be added to a mailing list. Keep us alive by telling us what you think!

www.scenerep.org/scenezine/issue10.php

Thanks to the few people that have used the feedback form since my post. I hope that there will be more in regards to what articles people liked.

We're also very happy to take requests for demo and music reviews.

i'll sound a little harsh with what im about to say but someone needs to do it.. please dont take it personally..

hardly anyone reads scenerep.

its contents are simple and of no real interest to most of the sceners since they already know the demoscene and the issues you are talking about.

it's a quick cute read for most of the sceners who bother clicking on the ojuice post, and you can count those clicks each month on the ojuice counter.. they arent that many...

your target audience is the newbies and the newbies wont bother googling scenerep up when searching about info on the scene, they wont run into it either couz you have no name in the scene yet, no big groups link to your page.

increase to advanced tutorials and other sceners will start checking your site more starting the popularity snowball effect.

by the time you'll get decently bigger for most scene ppl to bother checking every month your new issue you'll already quit the project anyways, so thats why no one is bothering helping you out that much. (no one besides your regular staff that is..)

dont get me wrong, its a cute zine, i check it every month. but i really dont think you can expect the feedback and support from the scene masses at this point... good luck for the future though, hope to see it grow.

Could you please tell me how you accessed our statistics page? I'd really appreciate it. I'd also like the rest of my future told to me such as whether I'll find true love or if I'll be rich. It's absolutely amazing that you know when I'm going to quit my own projects and I envy your insight.

I don't get you wrong. In fact, you don't get me right. From your post I don't think you, "hope to see it grow".

I'll be sure to add your comments to our feedback section.

*sigh* i feared this would happen..

i know it hurts to get negative comments like these on your beloved project but i had to do it the honest way or you wouldnt realize my point..

why do ppl always just see the arrogance in my comments? is it the black avatar? am i beeing too blunt and honest? too unsensitive to your precious project? ffs.. its not like i enjoy telling other people that their projects are apeshit... im just stating what i see on them, from my experience. if you dont want to take the advises then dont take them.

but do believe me when i say i wish it gets better and grows bigger.

i totally second ps on this one.
I'm a bit deceived that an editor can't take a constructive criticism, tho ...
Honestly in the life of a scene zine you will get really really worse :)

Here's what I'll admit. We're not geared towards coders as much as I'd like. Instead we try to introduce infomation that will benifit the artists, animators, musician's and creative types. However as you'll see with the last issue we're slowly changing that. I'd submit that even you are not an expert at everything we ever publish. We also host columns, demo reviews, tips/tricks, and interviews not unlike other zines not to mention disk mags.

I'd also sumbit that as for consistancy we're number one. I don't think you can name me another zine or a diskmag that publishes regular monthly content.

I'd also like to know where you got the fantastic idea that OJuice stats are a reflection of how popular we are, but even so overall we have higher clickthrough rates on OJuice than most posts.

Go find Hugi #10 on Pouet and see how many comments it got. We're at issue 10 and already had 5 people tell us we're great due to our feedback form, some of which are your fellow respected demosceners that visit Pouet. You'll also note that the long standing Static Line only had two pieces of reader feedback sent to them for their last issue.

I like Hugi and Static Line by the way. And PAiN too.

And what really really really irks me is that you have the nerve to tell me I'm going to fail. As far as I'm concerned that's absolute bullshit and serves nothing but to bring hard working people down who want no more than to contribute to the scene they love.

Therefore if nothing else if you don't read our zine I suggest you say nothing because you obviously don't acually pay us much attention, which is fine and I won't think anything of it. It's not like I expect EVERYBODY to read it.

There's a big difference between constructive critism and an opinion. So far I have not seen any constructive critism other than, "its contents are simple and of no real interest to most of the sceners since they already know the demoscene and the issues you are talking about". Still the explanation of that leaves much to be desired.

why do ppl always just see the arrogance in my comments?

cos you're such a prick, matey! :D

look mate,
a) there wasnt any software that you mentioned on scenerep that i hadnt already heard about.
b) static line is still better then you. even if they _LIKE ALSO YOU_ are somewhat _clueless_ about the whole extension of the scene. but they _like you_ are _trying_ to dig deeper and that means alot on its own.
c) ojuice clicks reflect the scene interest in your project. ppl use ojuice to be reminded of things/new releases.
d) more comments (even if positive) do not reflect usefullness or relevance to the scene. hugi gets more comments and downloads all the time. ask the sceners if hugi is still the leading diskmag..
e) im telling you you're gonna fail couz i _been and seen_ the same road you are going and i know how it turns out. it turns out that it's alot of work and dedication and that _it isnt worth it_ because you should be doing _prods_ and not _journalism_. because prods are _alot_ more important in the scene and journalism takes alot more free time from you.
f) i do read your zine. even though most of the time i find it useless, and im telling you why i find it useless.
i guess you would rather me saying its cute and give you a pat in the back for a job well done when i was expecting more from it. im sorry, i tell people what i _really_ think about their prods instead, you know its called honesty...
g) i did meant to be minimally constructive and not solely destructive. im telling you, lift the level of interest of the articles or you wont get support. thats taken from my experience. and no im not the oracle of the scene but i did do enough in my short scene "career" to know more about how these projects turn out then you.

sceners already know how to use demotools, they already know what trackers are out there and how to use them. they already know what music is good and what isnt. they already know what new demos were released past month. sure it's _nice_ to read about it sometimes and find out a few new tricks and names, but thats not the kind of content that _drags_ people into supporting and feedbacking you like you seem to be expecting.
maybe if you have _too much free time_ you'll bother reading the stuff and not just the headlines but _most sceners wont bother_ which is why they wont feedback you. and im telling they wont bother couz they really wont. they'll skim through it twice each issue if you're lucky. only the newbies might bother reading it whole because they are still fascinated about what the scene is.

reed: ATLEAST IM NOT A SEX SYMBOL LIKE YOU!

I suppose then I'll stick to my experience and not yours which has been longer standing as an observer and much more involved community wise as a developer. You lack any support or cases in your comments as pertains to my endevours, and quite frankly the pushing and shoving between us is ridiculous.

I hate having to pick apart you posts but here I go again. There probably shouldn't be any software in our zine that you haven't heard of because demo developers create demos which are stand alone applications. However there are some tools which can help derease production time, and I really can't help the fact if you've "managed to make [demopaja] crash a few times" -your quote. I haven't crashed DemoPaja yet. As for static line, it's a good zine but what do you like about it in particular? Your comments about oJuice are once again laughable because you're not looking at why people click on things but how many times. I;d even suggest that we had our highest click throughs on OJuice after we switched servers because people were updating their bookmarks. I'll agree Hugi is the leading diskmag and I don't particularily want to make a diskmag. I'll decide when I quit, not you. If you find our zine useless don't read it. If you find prods productive go make some, and since I find journalism productive I'll stick to that PLUS I'll make productions AND I'll find time to WATCH productions and ENJOY them. As for what I'd prefer from you in the way of comments, constructive ones please. Not rants and raves with no basis. And no, you're not sorry. As for your last comment you haven't mentioned one thing that we can write that would be of value to you. Just that we don't write anything of value.

As for sceners knowing how to use demotools, I think I've already established that you personally don't, but I'm sure you're an excellent coder. Regarding, demosceners knowing their trackers, you're talking to someone that administrated on United Trackers years, so I don't think of you as any sort of expert. If free time is really your concern then why do you bother using Pouet when your oJuice profile clearly shows you as "inactive"? I beg to differ that you at least are trying to look active.

Unless you come up with some case studies that prove any of my comments falsely presented or misguided then back down.

look patrick, i was solely a scene journalist at some point aswell and im telling you, you dont know the scene properly until you start really releasing and working on more releases. no matter how much observing you been experiencing. you'll only realize some things when you start getting your hands dirty. it's a fact.

here is a clearer metaphor for you:
it's like saying you know alot about sex because you watched alot of porn movies.. it's a whole diferent league.. no one that has sex wants to know what a guy who watches too many porn movies but never actually did it thinks about it; all his points are so way off from the real thing, couz he has no clue... and only till you have a really good clue on wtf you are talking about can you expect the higher ranked porn stars to respect and support your work.



the fact that you claim hugi is the leading mag for the demoscene, on its own says alot on what you know of the current and past state of the scene..

hell, the fact that you don't know _why_ i claim to know more about this issue then you says alot on its own aswell. google up demojournal ffs.

Ahem, excuse me, but I think that ps has a point. :)

For most sceners, your online mag is not that interesting (yet). Let's have a quick look at the latest issue:

- the c++ thinggy: Ahem, sorry, but that's nothing.
- monthly music reviews: Only relevant to very few sceners out there. I guess the net label scene cares.
- Demopaja: Besides the stigma that surrounds this tool, it's too damn short. The few that are actually interested in demopaja don't get much useful info at all.
- 4k audio engines: Now, that could have been interesting. But again, it's too short and sketchily to be of much use.
- demos exposed: I for one prefer ths or static line (or even pouet) for reviews, but ok, that's a matter of taste.

So, there's not a single interesting thing for me to read. But as ps already pointed out, it's a matter of target group.


Oh, and your comparison with hugi#10 is nonsense. The amount of feedback that mag received _back then_ is not comparable to the feeback it gets _today_ many years after its release here on pouet. In fact, the early german language hugis were much more popular than the ones released today.

ps: Ok I'll hand it to you. You've shown me something you did and a resource I didn't know existed. Still you don't me, my plans, or my audience. Still it's interesting watching you guess. Being 3am I'm tired of dancing around this issue.

Tomaes: Thanks for acually fleshing out real constructive critism about our latest zine. Yes, my mentioning Hugi #10 was somewhat silly however to make the point again, we're at our tenth issue in the tenth month of publication, and we are indeed getting both readers and feedback. I don't expect a serious demo coder to take something from a beginners c++ article. I'm acually happy I did a demopaja tutorial at all. I've looked everywhere that I could think of and I couldn't find one for myself. Even the DemoPaja documentation doesn't really tell you how to use it. So I guess useful in my case == starting point. I also see where you're comming from with the 4k audio engine article. However I myself read wierd magazine and there was an article there on human cloning.... some articles I believe are points of conversation and not full out tutorials. Still, I'd be interested in knowing what you would have liked to have seen in that article? I know Umdesh4 would. He's acaully mentioned doing a followup. demo/music reviews obviously are for people that either a) don't surf Pouet b) need a starting points c) like suggestions d) are newbs and are discovering the scene.

Here's the clincher. I haven't denied that it is geared towards beginning sceners and to tell you the truth I hope it brings more people into demo production and appreciation. lol, i mean honestly... not everyone that reads scene zine is going to even open demopaja, but might not mind hearing about it.





... acually ps one more thing (really, I'm done after this). The salt and pepper of any healthy conversation is, "can", "will", and "could". Not, "won't" and "can't". I'll decide what I can or cannot do or where I will put my energy. I don't publish Scene Zine because I need appreciation, but because it's fun, informative, and gives me a chance to work with a team besides my demogroup. What really bothers me is when someone tells me my efforts are in vain when they're only speaking for themselves.

Arrivederci

May I point out that SceneZine also hosts articles written by non-staff, so if you think you could help us out, then do so :x
As far as im concerned, the zine reads nicely, and has a steady article line. Its easy and understandable for the beginners under us (which ofcourse im one of).
As for my c++ article, it nothing indeed, I already stated that in the first line of the article. But i wanted to show newbies like me that c++ isnt too hard at all if you spend some time on it, its just a little quick peek into it.
And about the monthly music & demos reviews, I myself think its nifty to read about them, they are just being reviewed by someone else, and its lovely to checkout reviews on your own song/demo.

patrick, you should scroll up and re-read ps's first post, you'll see it actually was a lot more friendly and constructive than your reply to it :)

keep up the good job, but do read the truth in ps's words. i've seen him stand where you're now standing, and it's a known fact that scene journalists who tend to get too serious about the whole journalism bit end up totally missing the point (hi adok!)

oh the point i was trying to make wasn't that scene journalism or a hopeless thing, i'm saying it shouldn't become your only-thing-that-matters, scene-wise. for instance, i do believe that it's not a coincidence that pain is still such a great mag, considering the maineditor also took some moments to produce something as fantastic as this.

and 8 months down the line...

- there are no serious discussions on pouet
- canada is not in america
- ithaqua has no skills
- scenerep.org domain hasnt been renewed for 3 days.
- and where are the demos by pat. groove?...

i tried to warn you that you were biting more then you could chew pat.... but you didnt want to listen to the jealous nobody envying your big bites.

sorry you had to learn it the hard way, btw, now would be a good time to drop the ego and start working on some demos to prove us wrong about you beeing a real demoscener.

I keep getting "DOMAIN EXPIRED"

Whattup with that?

Damn Americans. :)

I keep getting "DOMAIN EXPIRED"

Whattup with that?

Damn Americans. :)

DOMAIN EXPIRED!

it looks like these kids are doing this stuff just to tick us off!!! is this a secret takeover from the canadian scene ?

radman: panamericas radman, panamericans.

when you're busy trying to win arguments on pouet.net, don't neglect your own site!

ps: Antarcticans.