IQ and shit.
category: general [glöplog]
I keep wondering about one possibility. What if someday there is true scientific proof that one race is more intelligent than other? What if the pursuit of truth reaches a conclusion that maybe sounds racistic or is non politically correct? What if you have to accept the truth but can't? What if you had to choose between your belief and the scientific facts?
For me, in a case like this there are the facts and there is the point of view. I would be ok with the data but I would hold the view that IQ is not an absolute measurement of superiority. In fact, I would not like to see people as superior or inferior but just different. But the facts would be facts. Further investigation would be good but usually we further investigate only on things we don't like and want to debunk while accepting some common established truths without a second thought except if we disagree. Or maybe the opposite? (to not investigate on facts we don't like, just say they are bullshit and move on)
For me, in a case like this there are the facts and there is the point of view. I would be ok with the data but I would hold the view that IQ is not an absolute measurement of superiority. In fact, I would not like to see people as superior or inferior but just different. But the facts would be facts. Further investigation would be good but usually we further investigate only on things we don't like and want to debunk while accepting some common established truths without a second thought except if we disagree. Or maybe the opposite? (to not investigate on facts we don't like, just say they are bullshit and move on)
every now and again there's a thread on pouet that asks big sounding questions that are answered a million times over in undergraduate psychology essays all the time. it makes me cringe a little...
Shit. Optimus is returning to trolling. Go and code a CPC demo!
didn't we already have something like that in 1933?
Nothing much would change. There are already three types of people.
1) People that are convinced that one race is superior. No proof would make them change their mind, they would just blame the science and continue believing in their point.
2) People that are convinced that everyone is equal no matter what. No proof would make them change their mind, they would just blame the science and continue believing in their point.
and then there is
3) People that accept science. I am one of those, but I think we are in the minority.
1) People that are convinced that one race is superior. No proof would make them change their mind, they would just blame the science and continue believing in their point.
2) People that are convinced that everyone is equal no matter what. No proof would make them change their mind, they would just blame the science and continue believing in their point.
and then there is
3) People that accept science. I am one of those, but I think we are in the minority.
@ham: That's what I am doing right now. It's gonna rule the Frenchies =)
mmm.. I am not sure why I wrote this.
First of all some disclaimer, with this post I don't agree with the article published (IQ or criminality in these minorities or countries has mostly to do with the bad situation/education).
Secondly I remember adok publishing some tables of IQ in various countries, he has that (maybe biological) view that could seem racistic, though he never went to the other side to be hateful about other races, just has some obsession with IQ or maybe the stuff that makes him feel different but I don't remember he jumped in very racistic conclusions as that article (proove me wrong, I want to see)
Third, why I keep playing the devil's advocate? I always did. I find interesting that adok is quite different than most of us, maybe as interesting as to the truly anti-social or schizoid, it's like house m.d. even though without the coolness presented by the show but something many of us we'd hate. But I like it because it's so different that it becomes controversial. That's why I like adok, hugi and will continue with this view. It's one of us but he is so different that noone likes him.
mmm.. I am not sure why I wrote this.
First of all some disclaimer, with this post I don't agree with the article published (IQ or criminality in these minorities or countries has mostly to do with the bad situation/education).
Secondly I remember adok publishing some tables of IQ in various countries, he has that (maybe biological) view that could seem racistic, though he never went to the other side to be hateful about other races, just has some obsession with IQ or maybe the stuff that makes him feel different but I don't remember he jumped in very racistic conclusions as that article (proove me wrong, I want to see)
Third, why I keep playing the devil's advocate? I always did. I find interesting that adok is quite different than most of us, maybe as interesting as to the truly anti-social or schizoid, it's like house m.d. even though without the coolness presented by the show but something many of us we'd hate. But I like it because it's so different that it becomes controversial. That's why I like adok, hugi and will continue with this view. It's one of us but he is so different that noone likes him.
Science shall never be used to underline differences between humans.. That can only lead to pretention, hatred and wars..
oh quit it already
Yes, if it's a science driven by ethics. But what about science driven by the pursuit of truth?
Why is it that certain types of people always equate "superiority" exclusively with mathematical and logical intellect?
If it ever really comes down to survival of the fittest, you're gonna do fuck all with calculus.
If it ever really comes down to survival of the fittest, you're gonna do fuck all with calculus.
perhaps French people are superior, but..
the adn difference between 2 persons judged opposite is less than 0.001%.
the admited % of difference to call something a race is more than 0.1% .
More so : your genetic information is common :
You can die without making babies, Nothing will be loosed , everythings is already shared thousand times. Fuck you and die .
the adn difference between 2 persons judged opposite is less than 0.001%.
the admited % of difference to call something a race is more than 0.1% .
More so : your genetic information is common :
You can die without making babies, Nothing will be loosed , everythings is already shared thousand times. Fuck you and die .
'Survival of the fittest' is the ability to survive in a changing environment. The environment for humans in the civilized right now favors intellect over brawn (thankfully for me :D) so I think you are interpreting Darwins theories a bit wrong there.
Now, if some major catastrophe throws civilization back to the stone ages, other criteria will determine who is successful, so things can change.
Now, if some major catastrophe throws civilization back to the stone ages, other criteria will determine who is successful, so things can change.
optimus: 'iq' is already a very backwards theory, it measures only one very narrow element of intelligence. Check out adok: he can do well in an iq tests, but his actions reveal that he's actually very stupid.
Check out other theories like multiple intelligences.
Check out other theories like multiple intelligences.
I have to agree with sdw.
@Psonice: Yes I know. This post was just based on the adok controversy and that's why I mentioned iq there. And I stated it's not a measurement of superiority but difference.
@Psonice: Yes I know. This post was just based on the adok controversy and that's why I mentioned iq there. And I stated it's not a measurement of superiority but difference.
I don't really think natural selection, in the purest sense, even applies in civilized human societies. Sure, some people are able to gather a bit more money and power than the others, but in the end, almost everyone is fit to survive, and most of them will even be able to reproduce.
Also..
iq != intelligence, we discussed this many times in pouet before.
Typical case: the guys is really good at solving those tests, but he is completely unable to think in a _creative_ manner. Basically, he is a sudoku solver (engineering flavor) or encyclopedia parrot (medicine version), and nothing else, they are utterly useless for the general evolution of society (something they cannot stand). The reason is that this person normally fails to be creative, and more importantly, he is socially retarded (writing for magazines doesn't count). He lacks all sort of empathy, he is shy and unable to have a regular conversation, to communicate with other people. If intelligence was a desirable quality for survival, this person would be the very first one to die and therefore very stupid. Luckily for him, we the other less "intelligent" people have some mercy and allow him to exit, as long as he doesn't do too much noise or develop nazi ideas probably as a way to protect himself from his proven social, creative and emphatic stupidity.
I have seen pattern many times, these guys are really easy to spot and to avoid. Also, they are also harmless (and pathetic) as you stop them early enough.
About showing that a race has an average iq of xx, it's a bit like showing than another race has an average stature of yy. So what?
Typical case: the guys is really good at solving those tests, but he is completely unable to think in a _creative_ manner. Basically, he is a sudoku solver (engineering flavor) or encyclopedia parrot (medicine version), and nothing else, they are utterly useless for the general evolution of society (something they cannot stand). The reason is that this person normally fails to be creative, and more importantly, he is socially retarded (writing for magazines doesn't count). He lacks all sort of empathy, he is shy and unable to have a regular conversation, to communicate with other people. If intelligence was a desirable quality for survival, this person would be the very first one to die and therefore very stupid. Luckily for him, we the other less "intelligent" people have some mercy and allow him to exit, as long as he doesn't do too much noise or develop nazi ideas probably as a way to protect himself from his proven social, creative and emphatic stupidity.
I have seen pattern many times, these guys are really easy to spot and to avoid. Also, they are also harmless (and pathetic) as you stop them early enough.
About showing that a race has an average iq of xx, it's a bit like showing than another race has an average stature of yy. So what?
Quote:
I don't really think natural selection, in the purest sense, even applies in civilized human societies. Sure, some people are able to gather a bit more money and power than the others, but in the end, almost everyone is fit to survive, and most of them will even be able to reproduce.
Yeah, you do have a good point there. We have essentially eliminated natural selection in the civilized world, now it works like
this instead! :)
Sdw: Perhaps, it's better to hear what President Camacho has to said about this controversy.
By the way, did you check your e-mail recently?
By the way, did you check your e-mail recently?
Quote:
I don't really think natural selection, in the purest sense, even applies in civilized human societies. Sure, some people are able to gather a bit more money and power than the others, but in the end, almost everyone is fit to survive, and most of them will even be able to reproduce.
Except, even the slightest bias becomes an evolutionary trend eventually. Look up "gene pool". ;)
Quote:
Science shall never be used to underline differences between humans.. That can only lead to pretention, hatred and wars..
Whereas closing your eyes to objective reality leads to peace, love and harmony?
I think your phrase "IQ is not an absolute measurement of superiority". In fact, in nature I don't think such thing as superiority actually exists. it is way too relative.
computer scientists talking about science
is like scientologists talking about science
both share 5 letters with the word science
both are preoccupied with the notion of truth
both sound pretty stupid actually
is like scientologists talking about science
both share 5 letters with the word science
both are preoccupied with the notion of truth
both sound pretty stupid actually
People that are fixated with IQ are usually much dimmer than they think they are.
